Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:25 pm
I agree, these are major issues in Allegiance development.
But I'd like to add one more point to this. It's obvious, but must be said:
6. Stop working in secrecy. The secrecy around ASGS has hurt Allegiance developement when the developers couldn't do what they wanted due to ASGS restrictions. There are numerous examples to this:
AllegSkill-based autobalance can't get at the mu/sigAdvanced statistics that need to submit those to some kind of central serverCrash dumps that give the developers actual data to work with for tracking down crashes
Imago tried working on all of this, but was blocked by ASGS. And reportedly TE didn't respond to his requests. Of course I can't verify this, because, as usual, the communication happened in secret PMs.
But one thing I know for sure: Development isn't exactly fun when you repeatedly run into unsolvable roadblocks due to secrets within this community.
Now CSS, the replacement to ASGS, is supposed to solve these problems. But what's happening there? Again, it's being developed it in a closed group and kept secret, available only to select beta testers. You're repeating the exact same mistake over and over!
In fact, whenever something needs to be done in Alleg world, the first thing people do is form a closed group. WTF?
Opening up the dev lounge for public read access (unfortunately more isn't possible due to our trolls) is a nice first step to sane working environments.
By the way, was moving to GitHub ever considered? I've moved a few OSS projects there myself, and seen many others move. 'Modern FOSS project' in 2008 meant svn; but in 2011 it means using a dvcs such as git or mercurial. GitHub is especially nice because it's dead easy to contribute code. Just fork the project, commit your changes, and send a pull request to the upstream project. No asking for permissions (commit access). No patch files. Any stranger can immediately get started coding (assuming you provide a README that documents how to build and run the code). Once he has something to show, he'll submit a pull request. At that point, the project maintainers (Dev ZL, or other regular devs if we ever get any of those back) can review the changes, discuss them with the submitter right there (as part of the pull request, you can add a discussion directly to a specific line in the source code), and once the submission is OK, merge it into the main project with a single click.
Re point 4: I don't care about who owns servers; I care about what gets stuff done. The primary purpose of the svn, bugtracker, beta servers is to help development, i.e. support the developers and testers. If the active developers are unhappy about the current setup and request a change, then it has to get changed. Our 'administration' shouldn't have a say in this.
I had the feeling that Imago+Fuzzs system (continuous deployment to beta) was VERY helpful to the active coders (Imago+Xynth) and testers (BBT+P32). These 4 did get work doneā¢, and did so rather quickly for a short amount of time.
However, someone didn't like it ("beta moves too fast!") -> lots of drama -> beta stopped moving at all.
But I'd like to add one more point to this. It's obvious, but must be said:
6. Stop working in secrecy. The secrecy around ASGS has hurt Allegiance developement when the developers couldn't do what they wanted due to ASGS restrictions. There are numerous examples to this:
AllegSkill-based autobalance can't get at the mu/sigAdvanced statistics that need to submit those to some kind of central serverCrash dumps that give the developers actual data to work with for tracking down crashes
Imago tried working on all of this, but was blocked by ASGS. And reportedly TE didn't respond to his requests. Of course I can't verify this, because, as usual, the communication happened in secret PMs.
But one thing I know for sure: Development isn't exactly fun when you repeatedly run into unsolvable roadblocks due to secrets within this community.
Now CSS, the replacement to ASGS, is supposed to solve these problems. But what's happening there? Again, it's being developed it in a closed group and kept secret, available only to select beta testers. You're repeating the exact same mistake over and over!
In fact, whenever something needs to be done in Alleg world, the first thing people do is form a closed group. WTF?
Opening up the dev lounge for public read access (unfortunately more isn't possible due to our trolls) is a nice first step to sane working environments.
By the way, was moving to GitHub ever considered? I've moved a few OSS projects there myself, and seen many others move. 'Modern FOSS project' in 2008 meant svn; but in 2011 it means using a dvcs such as git or mercurial. GitHub is especially nice because it's dead easy to contribute code. Just fork the project, commit your changes, and send a pull request to the upstream project. No asking for permissions (commit access). No patch files. Any stranger can immediately get started coding (assuming you provide a README that documents how to build and run the code). Once he has something to show, he'll submit a pull request. At that point, the project maintainers (Dev ZL, or other regular devs if we ever get any of those back) can review the changes, discuss them with the submitter right there (as part of the pull request, you can add a discussion directly to a specific line in the source code), and once the submission is OK, merge it into the main project with a single click.
Re point 4: I don't care about who owns servers; I care about what gets stuff done. The primary purpose of the svn, bugtracker, beta servers is to help development, i.e. support the developers and testers. If the active developers are unhappy about the current setup and request a change, then it has to get changed. Our 'administration' shouldn't have a say in this.
I had the feeling that Imago+Fuzzs system (continuous deployment to beta) was VERY helpful to the active coders (Imago+Xynth) and testers (BBT+P32). These 4 did get work doneā¢, and did so rather quickly for a short amount of time.
However, someone didn't like it ("beta moves too fast!") -> lots of drama -> beta stopped moving at all.