EXP nerf

[Icky]

I wasn't going to chime in here because I have been so inactive recently, but:

How long will it take all you voobs to realize that exp is NOT over powered - it is played more because it is more FUN. Mini has the worst damage mod against util hull of the 3 main techpaths' weapons. Ints are meant to be ship-to-ship fighters.

If ints kill your miners, it is because you suck.

If ints kill your cons, it is because you suck.

If ints camp your bases for a bomb run, (surprise surprise) it's because you $#@!ing suck.

Don't touch PPs. An int can carry ONE $#@!ING PP without losing either fuel or ammo. That means he has ONE SHOT to see something for about 3 seconds. This is not OP. Also, ints carrying PPs mean they are more likely to lose them and give them to the other team, which will $#@! up HTT runs. It's a tradeoff and it is balanced.

Don't touch boost. I cannot believe this even came up, but I CAN believe Adept agrees with it In order for an int to get boost2/boost3, he has to pod someone that has it, have the presence of mind to pick it up if it does indeed drop (which isn't 100% of the time), swap out his old booster, and fly home without dying. If you pod him he loses it. If he changes ships, he loses it.

Cry me a $#@!ing river about the boost. Next you will be saying that KB is unfair because it makes people that are better than you do more damage.

$#@! off, don't touch exp. The sig nerf was PERFECT. If ints can kill all your miners now, you either don't have probes or don't have sufficient miner d. Ints are easy as hell to see coming. If they boost you can see them across the whole sector. IF you see 3 boosting ints heading to your miner sector, get those bitches out of there. If you don't see those ints, you deserve to lose.

I repeat: Cry me a river because you suck.

[Adept]

I'll just keep an eye out for how much you complain when you end up flying figs vs. ints Icky

Challenge is fun. Int fighting power is fine, and they really are fun to fly. They just shouldn't be good at everything.

[Icky]

Adept, I think you may have trouble reading. Ints are the WORST at killing cons/miners/drones. Nobody seems to acknowledge that. They aren't the best at everything. It's a sliding scale as it should be:

Ints - best at killing ships, worst at drones. Can't rip, hard to react quickly. Can absorb a lot of damage.

Figs - Decent at everything, easy to rip around the map and react. Take decent damage.

SFs - Kickass at killing drones, can rip but very slowly. Can't take much damage.

The system works, stop $#@!ing with it please. Everything does not need to be improved.

Also, I am not stupid enough to go toe-to-toe vs an int in a fig. If you are maybe that is part of the reason for this thread existing.

[the.ynik]

No, the system doesn't work. I agree that ints are worst at killing undefended miners due to damage vs. util -- but they are best at killing defended miners because they are good at podding nans (agil, damage vs small ships).

PPs are a major problem. Actually, the problem is not so much the PPs carried by ints, as they'll only have 1 or 2. But you just need 2 scouts loaded with PPs to fly circles around your techbase, and you are immune to TP2. And SBs have a hard time as well.
Yesterday we just had a game where giga sup with TP2 FBs reduced the enemy (Belts exp) to one sector. Scouts with PPs + Boost2 Hvy Ints allowed Belts to hunt down any TP2 scouts entering the sector. Aleph drops were gunned down by Hvy Ints before they even got in range to fire their ABs.

Currently the only endgames strong enough to actually end the game vs. adv exp are Cruisers and HTTs. I think a PP range nerf would fix this - keep the range high enough so that ints can use them to find miners, but low enough so that SBs and TP2 scouts have a change of sneaking. For example, reduce scanrange from 5k to 3.5k. I don't think changing PP expiration time would help - scouts carry enough of them to just drop another when the time runs out.

[TurkeyXIII]

Pff, that's hardly a good example. Sounds like you were outplayed, then got all uppity when your supremacy win button didn't work.

[the.ynik]

QUOTE (TurkeyXIII @ Sep 5 2010, 03:11 PM) Pff, that's hardly a good example. Sounds like you were outplayed, then got all uppity when your supremacy win button didn't work.

Any single example could maybe have been won a different way, but fact is that I haven't seen FBs win any game in the last month. In large prime-time games, that don't get finished with early bombing or resign after ints whore down the miner D and miners, the winning side has almost always been HTT, rarely SY or SBs. FBs were attempted frequently but always failed.
The magic win button called TP2 FBs has been broken for quite some time. But since HTTs were perked, there's a new magic win button, and it's working better than anything before.
I've seen adv sup teams get HTTs as endgame instead of FBs.

Don't get me wrong, I think the new HTTs are perfectly fine. But exp now is great at everything: miner O, defense, endgame. Their only weakness is SY - but everything is weak vs. SY (now that HKs were perked).
End games should be able to end the game. HTTs can do that (except maybe for high-sig IC). SY works as well. Tac and Sup aren't that bad either - but they only work as long as the enemy doesn't use PPs.

[_SRM_Nuke]

QUOTE (the.ynik @ Sep 5 2010, 09:27 AM) Any single example could maybe have been won a different way, but fact is that I haven't seen FBs win any game in the last month. In large prime-time games, that don't get finished with early bombing or resign after ints whore down the miner D and miners, the winning side has almost always been HTT, rarely SY or SBs. FBs were attempted frequently but always failed.
The magic win button called TP2 FBs has been broken for quite some time. But since HTTs were perked, there's a new magic win button, and it's working better than anything before.
I've seen adv sup teams get HTTs as endgame instead of FBs.

When have you been playing?!?! I think the vast majority of people believe fig bombers are the easiest way to win a game. The fact belter exp won should tell you something about your example. Of course if this was some 5v5 game, fig bombers would not work with such small teams. You just might be the only person who thinks tp2 fig bombers need to be perked.

[the.ynik]

QUOTE (_SRM_Nuke @ Sep 5 2010, 03:45 PM) When have you been playing?!?! I think the vast majority of people believe fig bombers are the easiest way to win a game. The fact belter exp won should tell you something about your example. Of course if this was some 5v5 game, fig bombers would not work with such small teams. You just might be the only person who thinks tp2 fig bombers need to be perked.

No it was a 20vs20. Sorry but FBs aren't the easiest way anymore. They used to be that and a lot of people still think that way, but they're wrong.

[Elzam_]

I agree with Nuke, anyone will tell you that FBs are overpowered, not underpowered. Yeah, the PP range is a tad far. But hey, we gotta remember. a scout's scan range is about 2400. What a PP does is effectively "future scout" about 10 seconds. But in all honesty, if you're a TP2 scout and you're getting eyed 3k from base, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. SBs get in formation 6k out. WILL THE NOOB SB GETTING EYED 4k OUT PLEASE STOP FLYING SBs! The TP2 scout should be able to get about 3k from base, behind a rock, (or even 3.5k if you're nervous) and do the drop. If you lost to belter exp, It's probably because you were sup with boost 2/3 and they had it.

[the.ynik]

QUOTE (Elzam V. Branstein @ Sep 5 2010, 04:21 PM) I agree with Nuke, anyone will tell you that FBs are overpowered, not underpowered. Yeah, the PP range is a tad far. But hey, we gotta remember. a scout's scan range is about 2400. What a PP does is effectively "future scout" about 10 seconds. But in all honesty, if you're a TP2 scout and you're getting eyed 3k from base, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. SBs get in formation 6k out. WILL THE NOOB SB GETTING EYED 4k OUT PLEASE STOP FLYING SBs! The TP2 scout should be able to get about 3k from base, behind a rock, (or even 3.5k if you're nervous) and do the drop. If you lost to belter exp, It's probably because you were sup with boost 2/3 and they had it.

Then tell me, how do you sneak your TP2 scout in position when there's a PP being dropped in the sector every few seconds?
Yes, PPs dropped close to the base are harmless - they won't eye a TP2 scout until it's too late. But if scouts fly circles around the sector and drop PPs at potential drop points, TP2 scouts WILL get eyed. It's not just future scouting by 10 seconds - it's 5k scan range in ALL directions, not just the one your are flying in. That's a HUGE difference when looking for a TP2 scout/SB hiding outside the sector.

Consider: a scout with 2400 scanrange is trying to find something with 50% sig. If he flies a straight line, he will search a region of space in form of a cyclinder with radius 1200m (area: 4.5km²). Actually a quite bit less than that because scanners are less effective to the side.
But dropping PPs regularly, he will search a cylinder with radius 2500m (area: 19.6 km²). So a scout with PPs is 335% more effective than a normal scout (actually quite a bit more than that because PPs have equal scanrange in all directions). And that's only considering the area of the circle, the "scouting into the future" effect isn't even included in that number.
PPs are great, and if TP2 scouts can hide in some games, then the exp team sucks and doesn't use enough PPs (or uses them only close to base). Especially in large games, it's easy to dedicate a few players to pulsing out TP2 scouts, rendering FBs useless.
Even when you can't hunt down the TP2 scout, just dropping PPs while they are preparing causes them to either get eyed or they will have to abort and keep far away from the PP scout, unable to drop.