Elementary school shooting

Spunkmeyer · Post by **Spunkmeyer** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:41 am

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

You'd think any sane person would agree that the right to keep and bear arms is granted for the express purpose of maintaining a "well-regulated militia"

No, not in the US.

minigun · Post by **minigun** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:50 am

To put multiple rounds into little 6-7 year old girls and boys....i can't process this, i can't see how life on this earth is so bad,
that someone could possibly do this. My brain just can't go there. i'll just have to let it go, and time will slowley wash it away.

raumvogel · Post by **raumvogel** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:53 am

Of coarse the thread has evolved into a gun control debate.http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/..._the_shootings/

Hellsyng · Post by **Hellsyng** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:25 am

My personal opinion on the gun control problem is this:
1. Anyone who tries to acquire a firearm should have to undergo a rigorous mental health screening (this should also factor in their family).
2. Anyone who passes the mental health screening should have to take a mandatory class in operating the firearm effectively.
3. Anyone who does the two above should get a tax deduction (or something similar) based on being mentally sane and adding to the collective safety of the country.
4. The guns themselves need to be kept under tighter control as well (I haven't really thought of a solution for this though).

This way more of the right people would apply for, receive and then possibly use their weapon to save the lives of other civilians. I understand the points of people advocating stricter gun laws and people saying that guns are our constitutional right. The problem with the right to bear arms is that it was written two and half centuries ago to make sure civilians would be able to protect themselves against an oppressive government and against other governments since we had no standing army. Currently 99% (forgive me for pulling a number out of my ass there) of the guns American civilians own would be completely useless against the vehicles our military could use to beat us into the dirt, we also have no need for a militia in the first place anymore since we DO have a full-time, professional military protecting us. Personally I think it's part of my civic duty to be able to protect others and I am going to be getting my concealed firearm permit as soon as possible.

Raum your link had a great message, thanks for sharing. I really hate that this scumbag targetted children and agree it would be cool if teachers had the ability to protect their students.

cowtown · Post by **cowtown** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:57 am

Its all a matter of numbers IMO...so lets crunch some...

They say 9/10 people in the USA own guns..

U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people | Reuters

They also say that 1 in 5 have a mental health issue of some sort..

Mental Illness Affects 1 in 5 U.S. Adults, Survey Finds - US News and World Report

The population of the USA is about 312 million...

Population in the U.S. - Google Public Data Explorer

So... a quick crunch of the numbers...

312M X 0.9 X 0.2 = 56.16 Million people with guns, who have a mential health issue...56 Million people..

Statisticaly speaking of course, rough numbers of course, but still...

56,000,000 people who are potenialy armed and not mentaly well...

When you put it that way, it really is a surprise that these types of events arent more common...:eek:

Some say its a gun problem, some say its a mental health issue, others want to blame video games, or over crowding...
Its just numbers...eventualy one of the 56 million is going to go overboard, and it will happen, again and again...until the numbers change..

Very rough numbers, of course but still an amazing number...

raumvogel · Post by **raumvogel** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:06 am

My dad was a high school coach/substitute teacher in some of the tougher high schools in Detroit. He took away guns,machetes,knives, brass knuckles, hammers and an assortment of other weapons from the students. And that was back in the 70's. The mental health check is a good idea, but that alone would probably make the cost of ownership too prohibitive to the average citizen. There are so many criminals (violent or otherwise) that we can't afford enough prison space. There is a bar down the street with an ex prisoner hanging around and intimidated people. He once told me "He likes to fight and wished he could go back to prison. I think the bar owner is scared to call the cops on him to get rid of the guy.
I'm hoping Obamacare will increase the ability for people to get mental health care.But in the case of "things simmering below the surface" like is probably the case with mass shootings like this one, I don't know if anything could have helped.

Viscur · Post by **Viscur** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:26 am

9/10 of americans dont own guns.

Most gun owners own more than one.

Malicious Wraith · Post by **Malicious Wraith** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:22 am

Yeah, I was going to say, some shoddy number crunching.

That isn't to say the idea isn't accurate though. Without making this a gun ownership issue, it just makes sense that eventually some bad people will do bad things. If not with guns, maybe they would have used explosive grade manure and blown up the school after stabbing the father with a kitchen knife. There are tons of ways to kill lots of people...

But guns sure do make it easier.

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:36 am

Malicious Wraith wrote:QUOTE (Malicious Wraith @ Dec 16 2012, 02:22 AM) Yeah, I was going to say, some shoddy number crunching.

That isn't to say the idea isn't accurate though. Without making this a gun ownership issue, it just makes sense that eventually some bad people will do bad things. If not with guns, maybe they would have used explosive grade manure and blown up the school after stabbing the father with a kitchen knife. There are tons of ways to kill lots of people...

But guns sure do make it easier.

If you had clicked the linkee you'd see explosives + schools gave the biggest bang for the buck. ( FreeBeer would be proud )

I had not heard about the school shootings and was at out at a resturant with a TV when Obama addressed the nation about the shooting. I couldn't hear the POTUS, nor knew the subject matter but could see him. My thoughts were his skills had degraded quite sharply as he seemed distracted and kept seeming to lose his place. It was when I saw that he appeared to wipe a tear from his face I had best find what the $#@! was going on and sharpish. So wierdly my first reaction was a quick feeling of relief once I heard the news before the more normal one kicked in.

edit:
Responding to Sir Quacks-alot

Agree 100% and why when I purchased mine I came to the decision that to best of my understanding on the front side of the event if I used it I could accept the fall out. It was for a specific reason and when the reason seemed to go away I sold the gun without a regret.

cowtown · Post by **cowtown** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:46 am

If you let the people out who are there on simple pot related charges, there would be plenty of room in the state hotel.

Of course my numbers are very rough, but even if we were to say widdle them down by 0.0001 to 0.00001 or so thats still 50,000 to 5000 or so nasty folks with the ability to make a big mess..
Thats still a crazy (ha!) number...