Sup too powerful in CC07

Post by **zombywoof** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:09 am

Broodwich wrote:QUOTE (Broodwich @ Nov 12 2009, 08:53 PM) I feel the need to step in and say suggested nerfs to bios were voted down by YOU the community little more than a month ago, bios sup in particular

^^^^^

That.

Malicious Wraith · Post by **Malicious Wraith** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:13 am

You mean by making it less fun to fly? Sure, the community loves that idea.

Plus, its entirely the prox that is unbalancing about bios. Surreee

Gandalf2 · Post by **Gandalf2** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:09 pm

MW talks much sense in this thread, I would be up for nerfing bios but not in the ways that were suggested, the econ needs amending more than the figs.

RoboTel · Post by **RoboTel** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:08 pm

For what little it is worth, I think it would be interesting to just halve their paydays in the next version and go from there. Maybe just bring it to 60%.

Right now the biggest problem (in my inexperienced eyes at least), is that they get too far without mining support. The way to fix that isn't to nerf their mining, that just makes it even worse, but to nerf their sources of income outside of mining.

Drizzo · Post by **Drizzo** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:00 pm

The thing about BIOS is that people aren't treating them aggressively anymore. I've had no problem taking out people that have clung to the BIOS "I built a sup so I'm going to win" mentality. And literally that's all they did, or tried to do. Build a Sup and let their miners die and not apply any tangible miner offence. Most of them have been handled with IC op to the home, kill everything that launches etc. Or just kill all their miners, and hope that their comm is stupid enough to keep spending 4k on building new ones so you can kill them as well, and actually take the map. The nerfs I would see done to BIOS would be reverting back to the pre DN 4.4 or 4.5 BIOS changes, and that would be increasing their small con/miner build times back to 90s and their tech con build times back to 120s.

Although the above tactic gets significantly harder to do as the amount of aggressive players is increasing at an inverse rate. You wouldn't believe the amount of coaxing you have to do to get people to fly through 1 empty sector to hit miners in another sector.

You will see BIOS winning majority of its games against passive commanders, or people that follow the popular Aarmstrong school of command without Aarm's innovation (the basics being build a 2-ish forward bases and then get your adv. tech). When you play a commander that's not afraid to take risks (nod to Grey) or wants to win at any cost (nod to DrS), even in its current state, BIOS can have the leash put on it. The problem is getting a team of aggressive players. If that's not possible, just go belters and tp2 figbbr them before they can figbbr you (Read: Make it a boring $#@!ing game).

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Actual Sup nerfs

Dumbfire 2 should not be a better bomber deterrent then mg2 ints. The thing that's difficult to scale is any missile that has a relatively large warhead will always be able to spike (Hunter2 bbr Spikes, Killer1 bbr spikes). Even taking that into account, the two other tech paths (Exp and Tac) Rely heavily on having to kill nans in order to kill any type of common base killing tech (SY is still uncommon). With sup, you just make sure you have a 2500 cr. purchase and with 5-6 pilots, you can ensure that your base is defended. 5-6 enh fighters can stop 9+ nan bomb runs better then 5-6 regular ints, or 5-6 regular SFs can, so please tell me that the CC team has considered that.

It would make sense to at this point look into changing the damage class of dumbfires or the effectiveness of missiles vs. Medium hull. Giving Medium hull a 25-50% resistance to ordinance would actually make bombing more realistic vs. BIOS and Belters teams in the first 15 minutes.

Again all that change would do is reinforce teamwork, because as always, probes will kill a bomber before it gets to your sector. Being able to just rip in, line up, press Joy2 or RMB or whatever you mapped (Effectively dubbed by me as Right Click Tech) to save your base should not be the saving grace for your team dropping the ball.

TBH the only tech path that should be able to spike a bomber clean dead is Tac because such a move would literally be a tactical strike. Exp played ideally will be too in your face for you to let up and take the team out for a bomb run, and Sup should see your bomb run the moment it leaves its base.

Psychosis · Post by **Psychosis** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:14 pm

the biggest problem with bios is that your figs are dropping prox, that is a huge early game defensive bonus, and strongly encourages camping, with the scan perks it is usually easy to see everything coming, giving your figs AMPLE time to camp up.

5 basic figs can stop a capship + bomber with ease if they see it coming.

Drizzo · Post by **Drizzo** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:17 pm

Bomber yes, capship? Exaggeration

Psychosis · Post by **Psychosis** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:21 pm

Drizzo wrote:QUOTE (Drizzo @ Nov 13 2009, 11:17 AM) Bomber yes, capship? Exaggeration

nope, we ate an ass carrier and the bomber, and the nantrain, iirc 4 figs and a scout

laughed our asses off, prox and df1 spike

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:56 pm

Halved bios paydays would be an elegant fix.

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:23 pm

Psychosis wrote:QUOTE (Psychosis @ Nov 13 2009, 04:21 PM) nope, we ate an ass carrier and the bomber, and the nantrain, iirc 4 figs and a scout

laughed our asses off, prox and df1 spike

I remember that, you were the scout and I was one of the figs (df1 iirc). They just died, it was quite funny.