zimmerman trial

germloucks · Post by **germloucks** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:59 pm

People keep presuming race was an issue here. I don't see any indication of a race bias at all. The DA knew it would be almost impossible to win if he pressed murder/manslaughter charges against zimmerman (which i would like to point out he was RIGHT) and it wasnt until Al Sharpton got involved that they felt like they had to because of all the politics that got injected.

I'm not saying race isn't an issue with some people in America, it's just that this case has absolutely zero to do with it. These White vs Black comparisons are USELESS because they have NOTHING TO DO with zimmerman, because he ISNT WHITE.

Lastly, the constitution guarantees people can keep their weapons, so taking them away is not an option. Training programs are costly and it's probably unconstitutional to make them pre-requisites. I do think Zimmerman should have left the gun in the car, yes he would have gotten beaten up but both people would have lived. I think even he probably would privately admit to that.

NightRychune · Post by **NightRychune** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:29 pm

racism is not exclusive to white people and it's $#@!ing stupid if you think it is

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:38 pm

NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Jul 17 2013, 01:01 PM) people are pissed at the law/justice system because they feel increasingly disenfranchised due to the way racism influences our justice system as a whole and other important sectors of our society, like education

this situation and this case have been a vessel for those frustrations, and it's no surprise people are so upset about the verdict - regardless of facts or evidence - because they feel it reinforces the dominant, racist paradigms of our society

Those are interesting points, in particular that people would use a case like this one as a vessel for such frustrations. It's a microcosm of the whole problem. People see a person of a certain ethnicity getting mistreated (or in this case, receiving perceived mistreatment), and assume it is due to racism. However, when you look at the facts of this particular case, race really isn't the issue at all. Lack of evidence is the issue.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist in this country. Far from it. But I do think people tend to see it as the boogeyman that lurks around every corner. I'll tell you from what I've experienced, cultural factors in the communities of certain ethnicities are at least as culpable as racism or discrimination for the plight of certain racial minorities in the USA. I've seen many people of certain racial identities point to racism as the reason that they have not succeeded as much as others, when in reality the real reason for blame lies with a poor work ethic, and poor choices.

Broodwich · Post by **Broodwich** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:48 pm

DEYTEKRJAAAABS

NightRychune · Post by **NightRychune** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:06 pm

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jul 17 2013, 12:38 PM) I've seen many people of certain racial identities point to racism as the reason that they have not succeeded as much as others, when in reality the real reason for blame lies with a poor work ethic, and poor choices.

do you think it's plausible that these people feel like they shouldn't bother trying at times because they'll be suppressed due to their race regardless of how much effort they put in?

cashto · Post by **cashto** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:14 pm

germloucks wrote:QUOTE (germloucks @ Jul 17 2013, 10:59 AM) These White vs Black comparisons are USELESS because they have NOTHING TO DO with zimmerman, because he ISNT WHITE.

Yes he is. Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race.

Some whites might not like him because he's Hispanic, but white people hating each other is nothing new.

cashto · Post by **cashto** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:56 pm

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jul 17 2013, 11:38 AM) I've seen many people of certain racial identities point to racism as the reason that they have not succeeded as much as others, when in reality the real reason for blame lies with a poor work ethic, and poor choices.

But it's also simultaneously true that the reason why people grow up to make poor choices has a lot to do with the lingering effects of three hundred years of institutionalized racism.

Even if we were a post-racial society (and we're not), that's not something that can be wiped away overnight.

Icky · Post by **Icky** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:05 pm

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jul 16 2013, 05:02 PM) If Zimmerman were black and Martin were white, and all the other facts of the case remained the same, the only difference would be that nobody would care and it wouldn't be news. The verdict would still be not guilty for all the reasons outlined above that you probably didn't bother to read.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have never lived in the South. I did for most of my life and can tell you without a doubt that the legal system works differently depending on your race. One example I can give is of 3 of my friends who were in a car together when they got pulled over with a smallish amount of pot. Two of the guys were white and one was black. Guess which one got a jail sentence?

It most definitely WOULD be news if a black man with a history of violence followed, confronted, and killed a white teenager because he was white and suspicious, and then the police just dropped it and let the guy walk in frigging FLORIDA.

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:04 pm

The way I feel there is racism as well is that even if it was a black on black shooting true it might not be big news but I don't think they wouldn't arrest the shooter.

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:50 pm

NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Jul 17 2013, 03:06 PM) do you think it's plausible that these people feel like they shouldn't bother trying at times because they'll be suppressed due to their race regardless of how much effort they put in?

If that is how they feel than that is part of the problem, because certainly there are abundant opportunities and examples of people from all racial backgrounds who have succeeded in the USA with hard work. I'm not saying it's easy or even as easy as it is for a white person, but it is possible if you focus on where you want to be instead of the bad things that are happening to you now.

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Jul 17 2013, 03:56 PM) But it's also simultaneously true that the reason why people grow up to make poor choices has a lot to do with the lingering effects of three hundred years of institutionalized racism.

Even if we were a post-racial society (and we're not), that's not something that can be wiped away overnight.

I agree but the only way to get beyond it is to start making better choices instead of constantly complaining about it and/or using it as an excuse.

Icky wrote:QUOTE (Icky @ Jul 17 2013, 04:05 PM) I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have never lived in the South. I did for most of my life and can tell you without a doubt that the legal system works differently depending on your race. One example I can give is of 3 of my friends who were in a car together when they got pulled over with a smallish amount of pot. Two of the guys were white and one was black. Guess which one got a jail sentence?

It most definitely WOULD be news if a black man with a history of violence followed, confronted, and killed a white teenager because he was white and suspicious, and then the police just dropped it and let the guy walk in frigging FLORIDA.

I acknowledge that racism exists but I was merely pointing out that race did not appear to be an issue in this case. I have yet to see any evidence of disparate treatment based on race or ethnicity in this case, and it certainly isn't the reason for the verdict based on the evidence in the case as discussed above.

I'm not going to bother to dignify your other point with a response because you very much changed the facts of the case.

HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Jul 17 2013, 05:04 PM) The way I feel there is racism as well is that even if it was a black on black shooting true it might not be big news but I don't think they wouldn't arrest the shooter.

I think it depends on the facts at hand, and I dont know the details of the actual investigation in this case, but I tend to agree.

I also think it's a little $#@!ed up that the federal government is essentially pursuing a witch hunt against Zimmerman, when the evidence seems to indicate that he's not a racist. From that article:

QUOTE The FBI did an intensive investigation of Zimmerman and found no evidence that he was a racist. To the contrary,CNN reported that he was advocate for blacks in his community, even bringing public attention to the beating of homeless black man by the white son of Sanford police officer. ABC News reported that he and his wife tutor black children for free. And it turns out that Zimmerman actually has a black great-grandfather.[/quote]