Free Allegiance Forums

Okay okay okay everyone who's still reading this, let's all remember one thing:
we're on the same side.
We all love Allegiance, and we all want the best things for it. I realize that some people are driving this "us vs them" mentality in these topics, and frankly that is the root cause of all of this unnecessary drama because WE ARE YOU and you are us.

Kage: I never claimed to create the keys, and I am familiar with your history here. I get it - you owned the DNS keys well before I got hold of them.

When they were given to me, I took a look at all of the administrator accounts and I did not see yours. I don't know why yours wasn't there, but I wasn't the one who removed you. Thalgor transferred the domains to me, and left me to copy everything off of his server before he took it down for good. We've been running this way ever since.

I'm sorry you feel pain and tears as a result of this, but I really don't think it was personal when you were removed. I know that from my point of view, I don't harbor any negativity towards you. In fact, the exact opposite is true: I have an immense amount of respect for you.

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Aug 21 2010, 02:07 PM) ...then I asked for some obvious stuff like limiting Fuzz ability to spam/troll (keep him away from Dev forum but make the forum read-only to everyone so he and everyone can still know what is going). I get a no and a threat and more insults

KGJV, I have never threatened you.
What would I even threaten you with? Banning you? Why would I do that?
I don't know what threat you're talking about here, but to me it doesn't even seem plausible.

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Aug 21 2010, 02:07 PM) Now that been said, what give your right or ownership of Alleg to deny my request like you just did ?

Frankly, the reason is: I hold the DNS domains and the administrative accounts. These are in my hands because both Thalgor and Pook gave them to me, and most importantly the Zone Leaders want me to have them.
It's no secret that I have said MANY TIMES that if I am asked to step down by them, then I will not only do so with pride but will help them transition the systems to the server and admin of their choosing.

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Aug 21 2010, 02:07 PM) Do I have to start my own organisation ? Just tell me WHAT YOU WANT (for the future of Allegiance mostly).

Definitely not - starting your own splinter community will only harm every Allegiance lover on the planet. Two smaller communities would mean smaller games, and less fun.

I'll tell you what I want: I want Allegiance to remain playable by as many people as possible for as long as possible because I want others to have as much fun playing this game as I have had over the last 10 years.
This begs my question though: What do YOU want?
Why do you want the DNS passwords?
Why do you want "the keys" so badly?

Again, some people in this thread are making a concerted effort to turn everyone against eachother with a "us vs them" attitude. That is the cause of all of this unnecessary drama because we are all on the same side: we all want to continue to play the game we love.

Let's move around to the same side of the table and see if we can make the best of Allegiance by working together.

--TE

PS: Imago, about motivation... donating sweat and tears is a selfless act that receives no rewards. Pook did this for years, I'm doing it now, and you've done it off and on throughout the years. We don't get paycheques. All we get is the occasional thanks amid the flurry of insults and stress. This is the life of any donation-based community. I'm sorry this isn't enough for you, but this is all we have. If you decide to continue to contribute to this game, know that you will only get the same stress and an occasional thanks.
It's good enough for me.

So basically this thread went like this: [ontopic] [ontopicish] [trying to be ontopinc but missing the point] [offtopic]

Imago (major code dev): I've lost motivation to do more code, donating to this charity will motivate me.
Xer (core ved): lol
Imago: no this is serious
Spidey (ZL): for those who don't know there is a work around, but it would be nice if it was fixed
TB (admin): Pfft, Imago's demanding money in exchange for work - as if anyone would do such a thing! While I'm here I'll give KG a kick because this thread needs more drama.
KG (major code dev): Hey that's not what I want, I just want more openness and the permissions I used to have and arguable should have.
me (me): Actually TB he wants people to donate to charity...
pkk (SL): I agree with what kg is saying.
Imago: TB, your presumption that I was asking for money is a perfect example of why I can't work for you - you could have just looked at the link, but instead you just jumped to conclusions without looking at the facts and evidence. Also I'll still do work if people donate to charity (original point of this topic).
BV (enforcement ZL): Imago, piss-off.
Imago: ok
BV: thanks
Imago: anyone see a problem with the people in charge telling me to leave in a topic designed to motivate me to keep contributing to this community?
TE (admin): Imago's free to ask for money if he wants, but I'm going to talk about KG instead and basically say no in long winded ways to what he wants without really giving proper reasons as to why.
Imago: *observes thread traveling orthogonally to the rails*
Hsharp (mod): could have been a little clearer that it was a donation to charity...
TE: I think BV is being fair in his decision.
<stuff involving pics of trains>
KG: finally some form of answer from TE, I'll take a moment to explain why I want the things I want.
Imago: we need a proper organisation, also KG
Fuzzy: btw the point of the thread is that way -> for those who are missing it
NotJarvis (ZL): actually KG the ZL position might not have been an empty gift like you thought it to be.
<stuff>
TE: Can't we all jsut get along, we're all on the same team, <some being reasonable to KG, but TE seems to have missed some posts so doesn't have all the info, some engagement in reasonable discussion about KG's requests>. also Imago all anyone ever gets around here is occasional thanks and lots of stress.
madpeople: summary post

To be fair, you can kinda see why Imago might be a little bit annoyed with those in charge - having freely donated hundreds of hours of dev time doing the vast majority of code changes in R6 the thanks he gets in return from those in charge can be summed up in a 1 fingered hand gesture and a suggestion to tell his complaints to the hand.
You can (probably) also see why the admins might not like imago because he's complaining about stuff. (ok, I don't know enough details because I don't have access to the hidden forums and imago says his posts explaining things have been deleted).

madpeople also notes the first person to take this off topic (about encouraging one of our most active developers to continue improving the game) into a dramafest (and makes time to agitate another major developer) is an admin - real smooth move there. [I'm calling you (as an admin) out here out here because your posting should be exemplary (like TE's previous post), not the cause of drama]

edit: bah, TE sneaked a post in while typing, *goes off to read it*
reading complete: madpeople thinks that TE's discussion with KG is turning healthy, probably should be in a different thread. madpeople will endeavor to enlighten TE on some of the points he does not know about.

I'm user 42.

Good for you.

Tigereye wrote:QUOTE (Tigereye @ Aug 22 2010, 05:20 PM) KGJV, I have never threatened you.
What would I even threaten you with? Banning you? Why would I do that?
I don't know what threat you're talking about here, but to me it doesn't even seem plausible.

TE, your dev ZL is putting actions into your hands
From the I'm being jerked around thread (see links for original posts):
KG: I want the dev lounge to be read only to everyone who can't see it right now. (next part mostly in jest I think) don't make me hack the IP board, you know I can if I really want to...
Bard: I haven't removed you from the dev lounge out of respect, but if you make threats like that TE will ban your IP and it won't be my problem anymore
pkk: you know that banning his IP won't really do anything...
Orion: This is an open game, the forums should be open to all too
KG: I agree, seems people here have a closed mindset and lack a sense of humor

Tigereye wrote:QUOTE (Tigereye @ Aug 22 2010, 06:20 PM) Frankly, the reason is: I hold the DNS domains and the administrative accounts. These are in my hands because both Thalgor and Pook gave them to me, and most importantly the Zone Leaders want me to have them.

Question: Who appoints Zoneleaders?
You do, not the community. Welcome to Absurdistan.

And since you quote Thalgor so often, please remind this:

Thalgor wrote:QUOTE (Thalgor @ April 22 2007)For these reasons, I have made the decision to restructure FreeAllegiance's community to solve these problems by turning the whole thing upside down. Instead of the primary contributors advising the Senate to make decisions, the primary contributors will be in charge and will be advised by what the Senate represents - the Community. Each Zone of influence (Development/Artwork, Technical Support, Events, Newbie Education, etc) will be lead by the community member who contributes most in that zone as chosen by the system administrators. These players will not answer to a pseudo-governmental body, but will answer to the community itself with the aid of the ASGS polling system. This will help remove the problems that stifled progress while ensuring that changes are still welcomed by the community at large.

Was spidey a primary contributor of CC team? No, you pushed him into the existing structure. (Maybe the best solution during that drama.)

Was Cort and now Bard a primary contributor of DevZone? No, you pushed both into the existing team.

I don't think Imago gives a $#@!. He only start playing again like 2 weeks ago when he decided that he needed some internet attention so he joined the dev team, campaigned for a bunch of useless features he thought up, and harassed people on the non-beta servers on testing days to make sure that his @#(! got tested by everyone - no exceptions.

Mastametz wrote:QUOTE (Mastametz @ Aug 22 2010, 06:50 PM) no exceptions.

Says the one, who no longer is perma banned...

pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Aug 22 2010, 09:52 AM) Says the one, who no longer is perma banned...

I really wish the GB would stick to avoiding trying to be humorous, because GB members really don't make any sense most of the time, so the humor is always a fail.

I don't think Germans understand what irony is.

Mastametz wrote:QUOTE (Mastametz @ Aug 22 2010, 05:50 PM) I don't think Imago gives a $#@!. He only start playing again like 2 weeks ago when he decided that he needed some internet attention so he joined the dev team, campaigned for a bunch of useless features he thought up, and harassed people on the non-lobby servers on testing days to make sure that his @#(! got tested by everyone - no exceptions.

Maybe you should get your facts right before trying to troll?

2 weeks my ass