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Pretty much the only instance you wouldn't use a dumbfire is when you're defending a miner.

Seekers and QFs are combat missiles[Read they usually do not have a purpose compared to DFs]. DFs are for unsuspecting victims, unskilled players, and pretty much @#(! that doesn't strafe.

Here let me use the magic of numbers this time around because I'm done my work.

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Core used is CC07

What's a common scenario these days... Okay let's say that you have an Iron Coalition Advanced Fighter with Quickfire2, Gat3 and Hvy Booster
Let's say the enemy has a Ga'Taraan Hvy Interceptor with Minigun3, Boost 1 and CM1.

Both sides have all the relevant GAs (Missile dmg2 for sup/PW+EW DMG2 for exp etc.)

Let us say that the scenario is you are the lone fighter that is approaching an aleph to camp it to defend your miner. You are eyed. Your killbonus is 17. Your identical counterpart bursts through the aleph you are headed towards in a GT Hvy Int and begins to approach you. You have no choice but to engage in a 1v1.

Let's see how effective your QFs would be on his hull.

QF2 Dmg = 40

Let's apply Missile Dmg 1 and 2, your kill bonus, and then the effectiveness of DM14 vs Medium class hull

QF True Dmg = 40 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.17 * 0.85 = 48.1338

The chance for CM1 to spoof a locked QF is found by manipulation of this formula.

if ecm <= resist then chance = 0.5 * ecm / resist
if ecm > resist then chance = 1.0 - (0.5 * resist / ecm)

or chance = 1.0 - (0.5 * (1.15 / 1.5)) = 62%

So CM1 has a 62% chance of spoofing a locked QF.

THIS IS WHERE BEING A VET COMES INTO PLAY

As a veteran fig pilot you know that QFs are easily spoofed. However, you also know that once someone pops their chaff, it has to re-arm, and your QFs lock n' load faster then chaff re-arms.

So why spam QFs and have them blow most of your salvo with one chaff?

Time it. Let loose 1, watch the chaff, roll 2 out of the pipe. Lock 1, spray 2. You carry 6 QFs/rack in an advanced fig.

48.1338 * 4 + ((48.1338*2) * 0.62) = 252.22 approximate damage, give or take 60, per rack of QF to your unfortunate hvy int counterpart.

GT hvy ints have 750 hull

252.22/750 = 33% or 1/3rd of a hvy ints hull. With one rack of QFs. QFs that have a .2s and a .25s loading time. Which means you can fire a locked QF every .45 seconds. Vs. waiting 1.5s to acquire a lock with Seeker2 and having a 2s reloading time. This is what I mean by burst damage. Yes 12 seekers may do more then 12 QFs, but never will it do the amount of damage that QF is capable of doing in the small amount of time that dogfights last.

Yeah let's see the easy to shoot down and susceptible to CM Seekers top that one Seymor.*

*What I mean by this - CM1 vs. QF2/Seeker2

Spoof chance per locked QF = 62%
Spoof chance per locked Seeker = 58%

HOWEVER

By the time a seeker loads and locks, the enemy chaff will be armed*, giving it a consistent 58% to spoof a seeker.

Compared to a Quickfire, where there are peroids inbetween Chaff arming time where you can fire locked QFs that will hit no matter what.

*Better word used

spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Dec 21 2009, 10:20 PM) p.s. in cc_08 firing quickfires will cause your ship to explode

They already do, it's just indirect.

spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Dec 22 2009, 07:20 AM) p.s. in cc_08 firing quickfires will cause your ship to explode

That actually sounds pretty cool for a Kamikaze pilot.

Seriously. Thrusters are now mapped to keys I feel comfortable with. Is there any viable use for vector lock that any vet could give advice on?

Actually tried a corkscrew approach to target (well, something that was supposed to be a corkscrew) and at least in my imagination it seemed that I took fewer hits. Also experimented with not targetting my target, flew closer, fired missile and targetted him a little bit later. Any use? (My idea was not to give him the lock warning to early). So missile, maybe one more, guns, chaos, reorient, all of it, chaff and repeat.

Often newer players use vector lock to keep moving forward but turn around to prox an enemy following them. It is not necessary to do this and more experienced players will know what you're up to, but otherwise it takes a little more "gut" feeling -- trying to center your prox and the path of the enemy.

I only use vector lock when in a fuel less int picking up a powerup and some newbie scout comes to dm me.

fuzzylunkin1 wrote:QUOTE (fuzzylunkin1 @ Dec 21 2009, 11:31 PM) Often newer players use vector lock to keep moving forward but turn around to prox an enemy following them. It is not necessary to do this and more experienced players will know what you're up to, but otherwise it takes a little more "gut" feeling -- trying to center your prox and the path of the enemy.

That or f3.

Nice numbers drizz, you were faster than me!

Anyway, seymour is right assuming every missile hits, which also means you only dogfight noobs.

Drizzo wrote:QUOTE (Drizzo @ Dec 22 2009, 05:45 PM) What's a common scenario these days... Okay let's say that you have an Iron Coalition Advanced Fighter with Quickfire2, Gat3 and Hvy Booster
Let's say the enemy has a Ga'Taraan Hvy Interceptor with Minigun3, Boost 1 and CM1.

Both sides have all the relevant GAs (Missile dmg2 for sup/PW+EW DMG2 for exp etc.)

Let us say that the scenario is you are the lone fighter that is approaching an aleph to camp it to defend your miner. You are eyed. Your killbonus is 17. Your identical counterpart bursts through the aleph you are headed towards in a GT Hvy Int and begins to approach you. You have no choice but to engage in a 1v1.

Why is the hvy int dog-fighting instead of going after the miner? Oh drizzo, I think your talking about facing down newbies. I know *MY* identical counterpart would not be so stupid as to dogfight some lone fighter when there is miners to be killing. Especially when I have Mini 3's a blazing. Maybe *YOUR* identical counterpart would dogfight, but not mine. You must be talking about using quickfires in pick up games.

Also, assuming that the situation _is_ plausible for a second. You are loading up quickfires into your missile slot and into your cargo slot with the intention that you will get into a one-on-one dogfight and you will kill that one person and then everything will calm down while you go get more missiles.

Seymor wrote:QUOTE (Seymor @ Dec 22 2009, 03:01 PM) Why is the hvy int dog-fighting instead of going after the miner? Oh drizzo, I think your talking about facing down newbies. I know *MY* identical counterpart would not be so stupid as to dogfight some lone fighter when there is miners to be killing. Especially when I have Mini 3's a blazing. Maybe *YOUR* identical counterpart would dogfight, but not mine. You must be talking about using quickfires in pick up games.

Also, assuming that the situation _is_ plausible for a second. You are loading up quickfires into your missile slot and into your cargo slot with the intention that you will get into a one-on-one dogfight and you will kill that one person and then everything will calm down while you go get more missiles.

No matter how did you get to the situation, having to dogfight an int or a fig is a possible situation. Even if you're not dogfighting, drizz's numbers can be applied to simple miner d engagements, the situation is actually "shoot some enemy". That said, your reply is not valid.

Anyway, you can stop arguing already, both numbers are right, you're just asuming different things.

Koln wrote:QUOTE (Koln @ Dec 23 2009, 12:42 AM) No matter how did you get to the situation, having to dogfight an int or a fig is a possible situation. Even if you're not dogfighting, drizz's numbers can be applied to simple miner d engagements, the situation is actually "shoot some enemy". That said, your reply is not valid.

Anyway, you can stop arguing already, both numbers are right, you're just asuming different things.

I'm studying for a final for the next 8 hours. I need something to break it up every once and a while.