Star Wars Post-Watching Thread

Non-Allegiance related. High probability of spam. Pruned regularly.
zombywoof
Posts: 6523
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Jan 4 2016, 06:29 PM) And if only imperial stormtroopers are so precise, why can't they hit anything?
Aside from the fact that they a) can and do, repeatedly (opening scene when they shoot down Leia on the Tantive IV and gun down the rebels who were taking cover, ESB when they easily overwhelm the interior defenses of the Hoth base, RotJ when they're kicking rebel ass on Endor), and b) Leia actually points out that they let the rebels get away so they could find the hidden rebel base... because it would have been a really short and boring movie if everyone was just shot to death in the first few scenes.

QUOTE The only real fundamental flaw was that the story was just a retread of episode IV. Down to the cantina scene. But at least it had a plot. And relatable characters. And believable dialog. To say TFA was worse than the prequels, is to forget just how atrocious the prequels were on all three of those levels.[/quote]
It had a plot, just not a good one. The characters weren't relateable. The dialog wasn't any more believable than any other dialog.

QUOTE The rest is just nitpicking IMO. If one is willing to set aside their willing suspension of disbelief, the same sort of holes could be poked all over the well-loved original trilogy too.[/quote]
Oh? I'd be interested to see what you come up with (yes this was edited i'm in a bitchy mood and no reason to snap at Cashto).

QUOTE I understood the relationship between the Republic and the Resistance to be akin to the relationship between the Allies and the French Resistance (i.e., the Republic didn't have full control of the galaxy after the defeat of the Empire, and the Resistance was that faction fighting against the remnants of the Empire where the Republic was unwilling or unable to commit resources). Rather glad they didn't go to Episode I levels of explaining the nuances of taxation of trade routes blah blah blah, as the relationship between the Republic and the Resistance was, in the grand scheme of things, rather unimportant.[/quote]
Ok so why doesn't the republic fleet help the resistance destroy this superweapon that just eradicated *seven of the major Republic planets*?! Unwilling or unable to commit resources? They were obviously in a state of open warfare.

QUOTE My preferred fan theory about Kylo Ren was that he expected his powers to grow after killing Han Solo, but instead the psychic trauma of killing his own father disrupted his control over the Force, thus making it possible for him to be ambushed by Chewie, which further weakened his concentration, which turned what would have been an simple force-choke rag-doll curbstomp into a still pretty one-sided battle with Finn, with the exception of one very lucky strike. Woulda been nice if all that had been explicit in the movie but oh well.[/quote]
My preferred fan theory is that JJ Abrams also had Jim Kirk promoted from "about to be booted out from the Federation" to "Captain of the Flagship" in the blink of an eye in the last major sci fi epic he was in charge of and so probably hasn't a damn clue what he's doing with regards to storyline.
Last edited by zombywoof on Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
cashto
Posts: 3165
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:40 am
Location: Seattle

Post by cashto »

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 5 2016, 01:40 PM) Oh? I'd be interested to see you try.

Ok so why doesn't the republic fleet help the resistance destroy this superweapon that just eradicated *seven of the major Republic planets*?! Unwilling or unable to commit resources? They were obviously in a state of open warfare.
Because the fleet was destroyed by the superweapon, per General Hux's speech:

QUOTE General Hux: Today is the end of the Republic. The end of a regime that acquiesces to disorder. At this very moment in a system far from here, the New Republic lies to the galaxy while secretly supporting the treachery of the rogues of the Resistance. This fierce machine which you have built, upon which we stand will bring an end to the Senate, to their cherished fleet.[/quote]

This question is a bit like asking why the US didn't sink Japan's six aircraft carriers the day after Pearl Harbor. Heck, what were all those ships doing in port anyways? Real life totally needs a better screenwriter. (Note that the movie doesn't specify where the Republic's fleet was when it was destroyed, whether it was in port or somewhere else in the galaxy; I suppose that's a clear failure of JJ Abrams at predicting what insignificant details moviegoers would get hung up on. If you accept a superweapon that can blow up six planets simultaneously, all in different solar systems (I presume), from halfway across the galaxy -- does it REALLY strain credibility to suggest it could also take out a whole starship fleet at the same time?)

Moreover this very short speech pretty clearly highlights the distinction of the Republic and the Resistance. The First Order has nothing bad to say about the Republic itself (not even to a sympathetic audience), except to accuse of it of weakness and covertly supporting the "treachery" of the Resistance "rogues". It's well implied here that the Republic tries to keep its image clean whereas the Resistance does the Republic's "dirty work" for them -- unofficially, of course -- things that they are, as I said, unable or unwilling to do.
Globemaster_III wrote:QUOTE (Globemaster_III @ Jan 11 2018, 11:27 PM) as you know i think very little of cashto, cashto alway a flying low pilot, he alway flying a trainer airplane and he rented
Raveen
Posts: 9104
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:00 am
Location: Birmingham, UK
Contact:

Post by Raveen »

Does it not stretch credulity that the Republic has only one fleet that's entirely kept at the capital? I suppose we don't know how big the Republic is but it's implied to be the major government in the galaxy with the First Order being a smaller external entity. There's nothing that I noticed that makes this clear though, for all I know the seven exploded planets were the whole Republic.

If the Republic is indeed a galaxy spanning organisation that's at least in a cold war with the First Order then surely they're going to have a massive fleet by any comparison with our military forces? 1 ship for every 10 systems would still make for millions to billions of ships. But Star Wars has never coped well with issues of scale and speed. (but the superluminal weapon that could be seen propogating did get up my nose :) ).
ImageImage
Spidey: Can't think of a reason I'd need to know anything
cashto
Posts: 3165
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:40 am
Location: Seattle

Post by cashto »

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Jan 6 2016, 04:31 AM) Does it not stretch credulity that the Republic has only one fleet that's entirely kept at the capital?
The movie never said the fleet was at the capital, or that it was even all in one place. I think people sort of inferred that because, IIRC, the superweapon scene only showed planets blowing up, not ships being destroyed, so the assumption is that blowing up a planet somehow blows up all the ships around it. To me, the failure is more one of leaving something to the imagination which would be better off just shown on screen, rather than a genuine plot hole, since the movie makes SOME attempt to establish the Republic's inability to respond to the First Order's use of the starkiller ray.

I think all of this is far less egregious than the other problem that P1 brought up, which is that the starkiller ray is just plain implausibly overpowered to begin with. I get it, in the sense that it's supposed to be the Death Star turned all the way up to 11 because the vision of TFA was "like ANH, but bigger and louder and with extra cool stuff". And some of that idea worked, I think (I liked Finn's character, I liked how Kylo Ren had some new badass Force abilities never seen before, I liked how Harrison Ford had the same comedic timing as the original series, I even liked how Kylo Ren was established as a conflicted dark side character from the very beginning). But this part, and the cantina scene, didn't work at all for me.
Globemaster_III wrote:QUOTE (Globemaster_III @ Jan 11 2018, 11:27 PM) as you know i think very little of cashto, cashto alway a flying low pilot, he alway flying a trainer airplane and he rented
Raveen
Posts: 9104
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:00 am
Location: Birmingham, UK
Contact:

Post by Raveen »

I'd agree with all of that. Like I say, i'm hoping that a second viewing will allow me to get over some of my reservations and enjoy TFA for what it is not what it isn't.
ImageImage
Spidey: Can't think of a reason I'd need to know anything
Papsmear
Posts: 4810
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Papsmear »

I'm glad I watched the movie before reading this discussion.
I liked parts of the new movie but as previously mentioned lots of things were left unexplained.
Since the latest and greatest Death Star was built inside a planet and was still destroyed, dare I say it, will the next Death Star be built inside a star?
Image
Image
BackTrak
Posts: 2079
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:52 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Post by BackTrak »

The next death star (code named "Nova Slayer") will be made out of two planets rammed together. The rebel republican resistance will need to fly up the trench formed by the two planets, and deploy 1.21 giga-watt proton torpedoes directly to the anus to cause the blow up-ness to happen. Thanks to split second timing, when the First Order Once Removed stooge hits the button, the whole thing will blow up, leading to the plot twist: Who actually blew the thing up? OMG, IT WAS AN INSIDE JERRRRRRB!!!

I'm going to leave what the actual business end of the thing looks like to your sweaty imagination. There you go.


I did like some stuff about TFA, don't get me wrong. I liked when Han realized that the critters were lose on his ship. Harrison does a great "Holy Crap, Run!!" face, it's nice to see him get to use it again. I liked BB8. I was extra surprised to find it was a real prop, not CGI. I liked the wrecked imperial stuff in the desert sets. And the new hardware on both sides. Acting was well done.
ImageImage
Dome
Posts: 4306
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:44 am
Location: Portland, OR

Post by Dome »

I thought it was great.

Felt like a warm embrace from an old friend. So happy with what they did with it. John Williams slays again too.

Not too concerned with looking for flaws, just happy with the experience.
Raveen
Posts: 9104
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:00 am
Location: Birmingham, UK
Contact:

Post by Raveen »

Oh anopther thing that bugged me. The death star eats a whole star in order to fire right?

So what happened when it fired first time? Did it eat a star? If so was there a second star in the system to start with? And even if that is the case then surely the weapon is useless once it's fired for a second time because it doesn't have a fuel source?

You're right though Backtrak, there was a lot to like, BB8 in particular.
ImageImage
Spidey: Can't think of a reason I'd need to know anything
Adaven
Posts: 1959
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Greater Ozarks

Post by Adaven »

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Jan 8 2016, 07:32 AM) Oh anopther thing that bugged me. The death star eats a whole star in order to fire right?

So what happened when it fired first time? Did it eat a star? If so was there a second star in the system to start with? And even if that is the case then surely the weapon is useless once it's fired for a second time because it doesn't have a fuel source?

You're right though Backtrak, there was a lot to like, BB8 in particular.
Didn't it hyperspace to a new system with a fresh star?
Post Reply