Deus Ex: Human Revolution

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:59 pm

Bacon wrote:QUOTE (Bacon @ Aug 29 2011, 04:25 PM) And finding a first aid kit that magically heals your GSW's so you can then absorb more gunfire isn't equally stupid?

Not really, although yes if you want to compare to "real life" but for the game it was (when done well) almost like a check point.

The best systems are the ones where you've got a set area to get through on a set amount of life then you get a regen point before the next big section. Most of the big FPS before the Regen HP came into it did this.

Now IIRC this is exactly like the Hungarian notation, where someone did one thing and everyone copied it poorly then gave it a bad name.

Someone already mentioned that Halo was the first to do it... only on shields. And this is the big kicker. It _worked_ very well for Halo. You had the intense rushes of needing to get HP but also having the option to hide to get your shield back online. Most shooters went "Halo did really well with that regen HP thingy so we'll do it!" but forgot that they only have one HP bar.

Shooters (imo) could learn something from Beat-um-ups, the tag games never let you regen all the way when you're off screen. They let you rest a certain amount and the more beaten up you get the more that goes down. I wouldn't mind if that was at least tried out in an AAA game...

Broodwich · Post by **Broodwich** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:22 pm

Its not like either is realistic, but having to conserve health by playing smart and tactically is much more fun to me than blazing through like an idiot and then finding a little hiding spot where i completely heal, then doing all over again. The regenning shield I have no problem with, cause its a shield and all that, and doesnt take much fire before dropping anyway. But health (or "armor" if you want) regenerating in 10 seconds of not being shot is just dumb

Spunkmeyer · Post by **Spunkmeyer** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:37 pm

I agree with the Pork, the scum from XT and Brood. You get all these health upgrades in the game and they are mostly useless as it is.

In fact, having just hacked my way through the entire police station with ease (and I only have a couple of hacking upgrades...it's mainly because the AI lets you get away with murder, not because the hacking game is too easy or antyhing) I'm about to switch to Deus Ex difficulty I think, hopefully it'll make things harder. And you have to have the discipline not to abuse the save/load mechanism for hacking - it makes it even easier.

Bacon_00 · Post by **Bacon_00** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:57 am

I agree with what you guys are saying about how the health pack system creates more tension and makes you act more strategically. There is definitely something to be said about scraping by w/ 2pts of health and making it through the level. Gives you a sense of accomplishment. However, there is more to gaming these days than simply beating the level and solving the puzzle. There is story and immersion to worry about, and having the player constantly obsessed with finding a health pack definitely detracts from the storytelling and immersion factor of the game. I like a challenge in my games, but I don't like a frustrating challenge. If I die more than 3-4 times at a certain point in a game, I get pissed off and don't want to play anymore. I don't have unlimited freetime to play video games, and spending an hour to get through one section makes me not want to play anymore. Since I had such a though time beating the first boss in this Deus Ex game, I have been less inclined to play it because it totally pissed me off.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've played enough video games with healthpacks that I just find it boring. Yeah, I get it, I'll get shot up and then find a health pack so I can get through the next level. Why not just make my health regenerate so I don't have to go looking for the damn healthpacks (which make no realistic sense anyway)? Plus you still have to scrounge around for ammo, which really is sort of the same thing...

Halo does it the best, though, you guys are right. Halo Reach has the same hybrid system. Your shields regen but your health doesn't. So you still have to look for health packs and you get that urgency of "crap I can't get shot too much here," but you aren't totally screwed if you can't find a healthpack.

DonKarnage · Post by **DonKarnage** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:33 am

better than powerups that give you 100% hull, shield, ammo, energy, and fuel. even to a battleship

Spunkmeyer · Post by **Spunkmeyer** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:54 pm

Oh nm, looks like I DON'T agree with the pork! *phew*

The difficulty level should be the solution for you Bacon. A mechanism like regen kills it even on the higher difficulty settings.

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:25 am

Bacon wrote:QUOTE (Bacon @ Aug 26 2011, 02:41 PM) See, I thoght DX1 was groundbreaking because of the choice it gave you. You could approach every level in a huge variety of ways, and even if you just picked the guns-blazing approach, it made you feel like a total badass knowing that you didn't *have* to go John Rambo on everybody and lay waste to the place. Knowing that you could just sneak past everybody and the game was OK with that just added a layer of excitement to it that a regular FPS lacked.

Also, it had some very cool choices to be made. I recall being shocked that I could kill a main character during some climactic scene and the game didn't stop. I did it on a whim, just like 'bah, I'm gonna shoot her' cause she was being a bitch. Well, the game was like 'OK' and let me do it. Most games wouldn't let you do that. They'd give you a game-over sign and make you try again.

Aaaand finally, it had some really cool story elements. IDK... I probably look at it through rose colored glasses, but it was definitely an original game in a sea of sameness.

Yeah I've refrained from posting it but I never even heard of the game until seeing it on Steam (maximum oh boy I'm a Dad now got to concentrate on being one timeframe of when it came out in my life is Im sure why). Anyhoo I bought it and within a half hour went *uninstall* wtf was the hype about anyway. After reading this thread it dawned on me it was "groundbbreaking", "innovative", and it couldn't possibly live up to the hype given what was happening is something now considered mundane in game play.

tl;dr It doesn't age well without the reasons it is so beloved (sort of like The Princess Bride, you have to be in the proper age range to think its the @#(!)

Bacon_00 · Post by **Bacon_00** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:28 am

Yeah I bet it hasn't aged well... but back in 2000 it was pretty damn awesome.

I think Alleg is one of very few games that ages well. I think anybody could pick up Allegiance and not feel that it was dated, save for maybe the graphics. This is probably more because there hasn't been a decent space shooter release since Alleg's time, though, so I guess we don't have anything new to compare it to.

Broodwich · Post by **Broodwich** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:36 am

Bacon wrote:QUOTE (Bacon @ Aug 30 2011, 09:28 PM) I think Alleg is one of very few games that ages well. I think anybody could pick up Allegiance and not feel that it was dated, save for maybe the graphics. This is probably more because there hasn't been a decent space shooter release since Alleg's time, though, so I guess we don't have anything new to compare it to.

definitely that. Most fps games have incorporated some kind of stealth element into gameplay for a while now. Last thing i heard of that was near allegish was eternal silence, but when i played it it was really buggy and you could literally switch between newtonian physics and xwing style space combat while you are flying. Fairly ridiculous

notjarvis · Post by **notjarvis** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:23 pm

MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ Aug 31 2011, 05:25 AM) Yeah I've refrained from posting it but I never even heard of the game until seeing it on Steam (maximum oh boy I'm a Dad now got to concentrate on being one timeframe of when it came out in my life is Im sure why). Anyhoo I bought it and within a half hour went *uninstall* wtf was the hype about anyway. After reading this thread it dawned on me it was "groundbbreaking", "innovative", and it couldn't possibly live up to the hype given what was happening is something now considered mundane in game play.

tl;dr It doesn't age well without the reasons it is so beloved (sort of like The Princess Bride, you have to be in the proper age range to think its the @#(!)

There is that. The graphics are dated now etc, as is the control interface and the combat etc. So all that will feel clunky and poorly designed to someone picking it up schooled in the now..

But the Beauty of the original Deus Ex was the sheer massive flexibility about the game.

You can kill major plot characters at different points in the timeline, explore adn mess around with parts of the world that aren't relevant to you yet, yet the plot, speech, actions of other NPC's just adapt to this.

Then you have a huge variety of ways you can achieve your objectives, from hacking everything, breaking into locks and computers (or even breaking them), to finding all the relevant keys and doing it that way, from wiping out everyone to not killing anyone at all, or even engaging.

You can find out the shape of the plot quite early on or wait till it's spelled out to you.

There was clearly a huge effort to think about all the things a player might think of doing and write parts of the game to handle it smoothly.

Few games have matched it's elasticity of playable plot IMO. You can play the game through and miss out on a large number of events, conversations, actions (and these weren't meaningless side quests - these were interesting colour/additions different behaviours and actions in the key roles).

The plot was actually alright in a standard SF conspiracy sorta way.