Prop 8 Oral Arguments

[Adept]

It's not your gut feeling on this that matters Masta. These are big questions faced by lots of nation states and governments, and a lot of research has gone into this.

Economica, and implications for your standard of living if a huge factor in people having kids. Feel free to do the research, most of it out there freely available these days.

[Mastametz]

QUOTE (Adept @ Apr 11 2013, 04:02 PM) Economica, and implications for your standard of living if a huge factor in people having kids.

It's a factor for the educated middle/upper middle/top class, which is a small percentage compared to the huge percentage of uneducated, irresponsible, and poor.

The poor and uneducated have more kids than anyone else.

It's not your Google search to rationalize your own opinion that matters.
This is how the real world works - ask anyone else here who actually lives in it.
and your Finland experience is not indicative of anything but Finland - at best.

[Camaro]

Obamacare required coverage of contraceptives at $0 should overall save the economy significant amounts of money...

... of course... anyone in the baby supplies industry is probably loathing the prospect of it.

[CronoDroid]

QUOTE (Sheriff Metz @ Apr 11 2013, 10:51 AM) People have kids because they want to/they won't use any form of birth control, not because of the financial implications of it.

Same with alcohol and tobacco. Sin tax is immense. Everyone drinks. Plenty of people smoke.

And there are less and less smokers than ever, and they are pretty much ostracized nowadays anyway, but that's beside the point. This is all very simple economics. Yes, even if you tax these products more heavily, there will be people who do them regardless. But it's just a fact that increasing the alcohol and tobacco tax decreases their use.

On that note, by some measures (mainly rates of death from liver cirrhosis), Prohibition actually worked...if your goal was to reduce alcohol consumption (it was).

Economic incentives and penalties affect real world behavior significantly. The only reason I'm opposed to them is because I like to drink and take drugs, which is something I feel like I should be able to do without getting reamed by the government. Actually I would be more than happy to pay a much larger tax on liquor if it decreased social ills in a big way, I don't want to see drunk driving, pointless fights and date rapes if I can avoid it. Economic penalties are the simplest and most direct way of reducing that sort of behavior.

Money affects your behavior. To claim otherwise is patently ridiculous.

QUOTE (Sheriff Metz @ Apr 11 2013, 04:05 PM) It's a factor for the educated middle/upper middle/top class, which is a small percentage compared to the huge percentage of uneducated, irresponsible, and poor.

The poor and uneducated have more kids than anyone else.

It's not your Google search to rationalize your own opinion that matters.
This is how the real world works - ask anyone else here who actually lives in it.
and your Finland experience is not indicative of anything but Finland - at best.

And every other developed country besides the US that offer similar benefits, right?

Just to be clear, your world is not the "real" world as you say. Nobody lives in the "real" world, they live in the world they experience and perceive. In reality, you have no clue what is actually going on unless you consult sources outside of your own experience. Let's face it, your experience is whack, it's inaccurate, biased and the methodology is flawed on a fundamental level.

The only reason you think your experience is more accurate than, uh, actual science is because you don't understand mathematics.

[Adept]

QUOTE (Sheriff Metz @ Apr 12 2013, 02:05 AM) It's not your Google search to rationalize your own opinion that matters.
This is how the real world works - ask anyone else here who actually lives in it.
and your Finland experience is not indicative of anything but Finland - at best.

Yes of course, because studying environmental science and population dynamics was pointless. The way to understand deep truths about how the "real world" works is being a nihilistic american bloke who just understands these things in his guts.

[germloucks]

The only thing strange here is that people keep arguing with Metz, who as far as i can tell, is the most successful troll in Allegiance history. You should teach a class Metz.

[Mastametz]

It's an argument of those-who-think-they-learned-how-the-world-works-in-college vs those-who-actually-have-applicable-life-experience

and they can be entirely different

personal experiences are very biased, and statistics are horrendously inaccurate and misleading



most things how they appear "on paper" is only a remote reflection of how things actually work in the real world

especially considering how slow the education system is to update curriculum to be accurate in the present day




generalizations are generally accurate, that's why they exist, and I live in the land where they are made
virtually every commonly stereotyped person I've met has done everything they can to reinforce said stereotype
it's pathetic

[Raveen]

QUOTE (germloucks @ Apr 12 2013, 06:18 AM) The only thing strange here is that people keep arguing with Metz, who as far as i can tell, is the most successful troll in Allegiance history. You should teach a class Metz.

It's sad really because let's face it, nobody could be that $#@!witted in real life and still remember how to tie their shoelaces. Unless Masta has a lot of velcro...

[Adept]

QUOTE (germloucks @ Apr 12 2013, 08:18 AM) The only thing strange here is that people keep arguing with Metz, who as far as i can tell, is the most successful troll in Allegiance history. You should teach a class Metz.

I have pretty much zero interest in whatever delusions of grandeur our resident self proclaimed nihilist racist has. He has provided some arguments you hear from the unwashed masses against equality etc. and I've been answering them mostly to keep a discussion gping with sane members of this community.

But you're right. He _is_ a very successful troll, because probably he really beleves he is brilliant and awesome.

[Mastametz]

The proof is in the pudding