Sup too powerful in CC07

[Drizzo]

How is parallelism pointless? You are looking at things from a purely offensive point of view. Is the fig going to rip away when 10 ints come for your miner?

I seek to invoke discussion of balance and parity because there will always be a situation where a fighter has to fight an int at some point in the game. Lest we forget that killbonuses have actual usage in squad games rather then just a fancy yardstick of how many people you've killed. Sometimes you need to get the job done in 3 ABs instead of 4. A 45 will let you accomplish that. Sometimes their miner just needs a bit more damage to kill it. A 40+ will let you accomplish that.

If figs are push-overs in combat then guess what? Nobody wants to fly them because they're not fun. And then you're back to DN pre 4.4. You get expansion teams that are whore stacked and nobody wants to fly sup because sup isn't fun to fly. Whoopie. What I consider is something called entertainment value. If the game is entertaining people will play, when it loses its entertainment, people will stop playing it and find other things to do. If someone can fly a fighter and get the same enjoyment from it as flying an int do you know how much more diverse the game be? Do you know how many more avenues of strategies this opens up? If each ship retains their uniqueness while gaining an equal combative footing, my personal enjoyment for the game would go up tenfold.

Why do you define the fighter as a purely offensive ship Rav? Why shouldn't the fighter be able to fight an int, provided the commander makes the necessary purchases to make that fighter tooled for combat? Yes I know in a squad game combat takes second to more priority roles and devices but let's face it, Allegiance is not a 1-3 hour segment out of 1 day game. I'm going to drop the respective tone here and say it would be utterly $#@!ing stupid to have fighters just be stealth fighters with marginally better defensive capability and no cloak, which is how you defined them.

[Adept]

QUOTE (Drizzo @ Nov 17 2009, 08:38 PM) If figs are push-overs in combat then guess what? Nobody wants to fly them because they're not fun. And then you're back to DN pre 4.4. You get expansion teams that are whore stacked and nobody wants to fly sup because sup isn't fun to fly. Whoopie.

Exactly. What he said.

Heavy ints still have the edge on adv fighters, but at least the adv fighters now are strong enough not to be dominated by ints.

[RoboTel]

I always wondered, if DF is supposed to be worse in combat, why don't we just make it incredibly vulnerable to CM?

I am not sure that this will solve everything, but this seems like the easiest solution if people seem to think they are too good against manned ships. I don't myself, but this seems like it would keep them in-line with their current purposes without making them suck.

[Camaro]

Perk the tac with a new Stealth Interceptor, complete with Stealth Boost, and Stealth mini-guns.

[Xeretov]

QUOTE (RoboTel @ Nov 17 2009, 03:35 PM) I always wondered, if DF is supposed to be worse in combat, why don't we just make it incredibly vulnerable to CM?

If dumbfires need to be spoofed then that just proves their tracking is too good.

Dumbfires are CM resistant because they're supposed to need that extra tracking to hit a target. Or have a chance at it anyways.

[Broodwich]

a properly equipped adv fig is far better in combat than an int. The difference comes when you start putting larger numbers of each craft in the same sector. Figs need to manage their distance and keep ints from jumping in close and ganking them while they pepper them with missles and gat fire, to do this they have mp/plas gens and atm hvy booster, which means they can boost away from someone who gets too close before they die. When the sector becomes a roiling dogfight it becomes extremely hard and even impossible to manage space with so many targets, and ints gain the upper hand with their superior firepower, maneuverability, and hull.

This is more evident in faction's openings. A rix fig can dominate a dreg int in a 1v1, but you put 10 or 15 of each in the same sector dreg will win every time. That is why exp is far more effective in sgs than in pugs, because how often do you A) see your team working together to get those kind of numbers and the last time i saw pug's start with more than 10 or 12 per side was longer than i can remember. Exp exists for the opening domination, and if you dont have the numbers than you will be extremely hard pressed to win against a sup team where a fig can solo miners then rip back way faster than an int can kill one then get back to base. Allowing a sup team to mine as much as you is a guaranteed loss. You may now resume your ill thought out opinions and retarded reasoning

[mcwarren4]

I've always thought interceptors should be more powerful than a fighters, but have much more limited range. Fighters = versatility whereas interceptors = brute force, but limited range. I remember in early versions of Allegiance being frustrated running out of fuel once sector from base in an int, that's why I always preferred figs in my voobdom days. Somewhere along the way ints evolved to be able to strike targets two sectors from home and still get back without running out of fuel or ammo. I've always said the way to fix this problem is to nerf int fuel efficiency/range rather than beefing up fighters' capability.

I LIKE the fact that figs can stand up to ints in the current version... in fact with quickfire 2 and minepack I'd argue figs are superior, but I think perhaps sup seems a bit over powered at this point. I'm an average dogfighter at best and I was launching a belters adv fig from a base that was camped, podding one mini2 heavy int, docking, and repeating over and over the other day. IMO that shouldn't happen. At this point it seems the only counter to a sup team is to have a stacked exp team. Given even sides my money is on sup every time with their far more superior endgame.

[Broodwich]

thats due to fig scale reduction mcw

[zombywoof]

Drizzo, your point is a little off. On minerD, the fig shouldn't be shot at ever (except for Belters figs, those need to die) because guess what? All you need to do on miner O is kill the nans then the miner. So while figs need high damage (which they have) they don't need to have high HP (which they don't have). I do; however, agree that figs are to powerful at the moment. At the adv level, they win the dm matchup, and because of the sup cost perks they don't even cost significantly more. 5k gat2 and 5k df2! Aaand 5k boost2, etc. That will go a long way to helping the matchup, since Exp will get yield GAs and have less stuff to buy.

Other than that, sure w/e let's try removing heavy boost. If exp suddenly becomes dominant again (which it shouldn't) then we can always put it back in and nerf it instead.

[Psychosis]

removing hvyboost will bring the endgame back to a somewhat stalemate, it wont fully fix the issue.

also, in large scale combat, i think the figs get a bonus on the ints, because swarmed dumbfires means instant death, you cant dodge them all, and they do SOO much damage to your hull