Prop 8 Oral Arguments

Non-Allegiance related. High probability of spam. Pruned regularly.
pkk
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Post by pkk »

MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ Apr 7 2013, 12:02 AM) Actually it is the same with most countries rather then the exception... including Germany. The policy was put into place in the 1980s by just about every country on the planet and many of the countries that no longer have a policy similar to Germany's like Mexico, England/Wales/Scotland have changed them in just the last few years.
Seems like they updated it in April 2010... Couldn't remember that MSN was an exclusion from blood donating... :unsure:
Last edited by pkk on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
MrChaos
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Post by MrChaos »

germloucks wrote:QUOTE (germloucks @ Apr 6 2013, 04:50 PM) As an actual homosexual, i feel like the war over gay marriage is mostly a proxy-war for the broader social values battles that have been raging since forever.
As an actual hetrosexual it feels the same way to me on both sides of the discussion. Same players coming in screaming the same things with new pero, pero, earo (but,but,but) arguments with each point as the icing on their own deeply held same old, same old convictions.

I respect the idea that the alphabet soup group of sexual orientation and behavior want full acceptance in every aspect rtfn. How you do that without trampling other aspects of society is why it is a bit at a time thing. The God Hates Fag church currently enjoys the protections of religious freedoms in our society even though their views are on the fringes. Prop eight (ocho), is it unlawful or not as well. Fwiw imho the first is being sly to push a hateful message and the second will be found to be unconstitutional... eventually ("separate but equal" and other similar decisions is why it could be eventually) Even after changes are made you sometimes have to revisit it like the "Don't ask, don't tell" or bans on blood donations. Both well meaning laws/policy with unforeseen and/or unintended outcomes. At the beginning of the outbreak medical science didn't have good enough testing and I find it very hard to believe that authors of Don't Ask Don't Tell foresaw it being used as a punitive thing to destroy careers.
Ssssh
germloucks
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Post by germloucks »

The actual reason for the ban on blood donations from gay people is out of fear of HIV cross infection. Early methods of screening for HIV/AIDS in donated blood were not effective enough to ensure safety, so at risk demographics were banned. This includes other short-term bans like tatoos, foreign country travel etc.

The ban isnt completely sensible, it bans anyone who has ever had homosexual sex, since 1976. So if you have ever experimented, you're on the permanently-banned list too.

EDIT: also mrc i tried to read your post but it didnt make any sense. :C
Last edited by germloucks on Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
HSharp
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Post by HSharp »

germloucks wrote:QUOTE (germloucks @ Apr 7 2013, 09:20 AM) EDIT: also mrc i tried to read your post but it didnt make any sense. :C
Have you just met MrC?

Also he is trying to learn spanish
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TangoVictor
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Post by TangoVictor »

Yeah, it would be wonderful if I could donate blood, but sadly the weekly blood drives we have on campus are just taunting me...
Dome wrote:QUOTE (Dome @ Dec 12 2012, 05:09 AM) I thought Tango was a 35 y/o Virginian tobacco farmer before I found out he's the same age as my sister. =P
blake420 wrote:QUOTE (blake420 @ Feb 16 2013, 04:42 AM) bah, you can't just take the asl and like it? fine you are demoted to TangoVictor's personal concubine.
"You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not" -John Lennon
Mastametz
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Post by Mastametz »

It seems to me MrC should learn sensible English before trying to learn any other languages.
There's a new sheriff in town.
germloucks
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Post by germloucks »

HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Apr 7 2013, 04:31 AM) Have you just met MrC?

Also he is trying to learn spanish

I think its polite to let people know you didnt hear/understand them. :P
MrChaos
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Post by MrChaos »

germloucks wrote:QUOTE (germloucks @ Apr 7 2013, 02:30 PM) I think its polite to let people know you didnt hear/understand them. :P

Not sure why... maybe I assume that the person has an understanding on the matter so that I can talk in shorthand and/or ironic. I am also trying very hard not to cause unintended offense and misunderstanding while not writing walls of text to do it. So its tap, tap, tappity tap, tap, tap creating Cronoesque walls of text and delete, delete, delete until it is smaller in length and readability takes one for the team.

This makes me fell old to write this but you probably weren't old enough at the time to be aware of society when Don't ask don't tell was introduced into law. At that time there was a real concern that allowing openly gay military personnel to serve would cause problems within the military. As a half step measure a policy (this is for others as I am quite sure you know this policy Germie ) was introduced to rescind removing someone from the military for being gay as long as they didn't tell anyone. Homophobia was much, much, much stronger then and gay service people would cause dissension within the ranks was considered a valid concern. The law was driving society vs. the society driving the law in a nutshell. As all half measure are I have to believe it wasn't what someone who was gay would think was the end all be all of laws. I understand but it was viewed as the best that could be done for the times. An unintended consequence was people who were gay were intentionally outted by others to ruin their careers. Along the lines of "separate but equal" (US Supreme court ruled that having two separate systems for color was ok as long as they were equal) a well meaning law that appears pants on the head stupid from twenty years in the future.

Same with blood transfusions, AIDs and being gay. Events like Rock Hudson's worries about coming out to the public and saying it must be blood transfusions from his heart surgery, at first, helped ramp up a worldwide hysteria about HIV and AIDS (only after he died did it cause others to begin to rethink things). People were afraid to kiss each other and mosquitos were equated with rattle snakes. Medical science was seen to be floundering around trying to get a handle on the disease and celebrities were dying horrible deaths as well. Myself, the ex, and meBoy were able to rent a very nice house on a student's budget because it was very hard to rent it given one of the gentlemen living in it developed AIDs. (they moved back to be closer to their families). This was way less then two decades ago (after Magic Johnson contracted HIV). I, like masta, wasn't even aware there was a law banning anyone who ever had same sex male sex from donating blood. My read is it is a legacy from the early days of the HIV virus that no one is willing to take a stand and rescind given the hysteria times two of gay and AIDs.

Marriage/civil unions and gay marriage is another aspect of the same thing all over again. In this case it is religion vs. discrimination. I may think know that louis farrakhan is hate mongering *#$@head in the same vein as the Westboro Baptist Church pinheads but there is a very strong vein of religious freedom that runs through American society that lets them operate. * shrug * Maybe breaking out the law from religious tradition is another half step measure in finding a way to balance religious freedom vs. personal freedom rather than a clever way to handle a very sticky wicket. Twenty years and we'll know for sure ;)
Ssssh
MrChaos
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Post by MrChaos »

TangoVictor wrote:QUOTE (TangoVictor @ Apr 7 2013, 12:57 PM) Yeah, it would be wonderful if I could donate blood, but sadly the weekly blood drives we have on campus are just taunting me...

Sincere question for you Tango. Assuming the reason you can't give blood is you are gay given the topic how the $#@! would they know unless you told them? Go donate blood and if you are asked if you ever had male on male sex just tell them you banged their mother last night and fart.
Ssssh
TangoVictor
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Post by TangoVictor »

Aye but that would be lying, and the only thing worse than a homosexual is a liar.
Dome wrote:QUOTE (Dome @ Dec 12 2012, 05:09 AM) I thought Tango was a 35 y/o Virginian tobacco farmer before I found out he's the same age as my sister. =P
blake420 wrote:QUOTE (blake420 @ Feb 16 2013, 04:42 AM) bah, you can't just take the asl and like it? fine you are demoted to TangoVictor's personal concubine.
"You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not" -John Lennon
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