32/24 bit art for allegiance
I really have no idea how big it is w/ just the textures, the entire faction is ~50mb. I would prefer to give you the PSD's, but I don't feel like doing anything that seems like work.
Last edited by Orion on Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
do you have anywhere you could host the textures (i'm not sure hotmail likes receiving large files, i can live with the waiting times on free file hosts if necessary)
Last edited by madpeople on Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
is it possible to upload this stuff to the repository? Make a folder or something in the FAZDev directory for Custom Factions, as well as maybe a Master Textures for the stock 2048's and a Projects place for folks to give updates and collaborate on things?
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Waiting on a little more info.
But if you want to collect ALL of the artwork as either 32 bit bmp's or png's that would be a great start. It sounds like you are almost there.
There are a number of utilities that can batch convert 16 bit bmp's to 32 bit bmp's as well as bmp's to png's.
Zapper has been the liaison between the dev team and you guys in the past so either get the files to him and I can have him upload them to the beta server (via ftp) or if he cannot or does not want to do that, if I can get one contact from the artwork group I can give that person access to the beta server.
It is my understanding we don't need to worry about alpha values at the moment so just keep things simple for now.
But if you want to collect ALL of the artwork as either 32 bit bmp's or png's that would be a great start. It sounds like you are almost there.
There are a number of utilities that can batch convert 16 bit bmp's to 32 bit bmp's as well as bmp's to png's.
Zapper has been the liaison between the dev team and you guys in the past so either get the files to him and I can have him upload them to the beta server (via ftp) or if he cannot or does not want to do that, if I can get one contact from the artwork group I can give that person access to the beta server.
It is my understanding we don't need to worry about alpha values at the moment so just keep things simple for now.
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Okay, so we can just put opaque alpha and worry about the rest if/when it will actually affect the transparency?
png's will take up less space in video memory, right? (maybe not as little as dds, but still some improvement) or is it inflated before being put on screen?
png's will take up less space in video memory, right? (maybe not as little as dds, but still some improvement) or is it inflated before being put on screen?
Last edited by Adaven on Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Yes, DDS isn't used anymore... which is why Nvidia & ATI are developing tools for it and constantly pushing it.KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Apr 4 2007, 07:39 PM) Why you talking about DDS ? This thing is not used anymore.
Not only does DDS allow you to pregenerate all mipmaps, it also (as I keep saying), doesn't have to be converted, both of these cut down on load times. PNG's compress better, but they compress/decompress more slowly, increasing load times. TGA's have on advantages over DDS that I know of.
QUOTE png's will take up less space in video memory, right? (maybe not as little as dds, but still some improvement)[/quote]
No, they will take up as much space as an uncompressed 32 bit image, because they have to be decompressed before being put into the card.
QUOTE or is it inflated before being put on screen?[/quote]
yeah, that one.
Last edited by Orion on Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
if they are the right size (power of 2) they will be fine (converting to other format isn't too hard, resizing would be annoying)Orion wrote:QUOTE (Orion @ Apr 5 2007, 12:24 AM) I really have no idea how big it is w/ just the textures, the entire faction is ~50mb. I would prefer to give you the PSD's, but I don't feel like doing anything that seems like work.
i was thinking about asking for a 32bit art section to be added to the repository (i'm not too sure how to use svn.. i know how to download /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> ), but i was going to ask for it when i have something to put in it (finished textures)Adaven wrote:QUOTE (Adaven @ Apr 5 2007, 12:44 AM) is it possible to upload this stuff to the repository? Make a folder or something in the FAZDev directory for Custom Factions, as well as maybe a Master Textures for the stock 2048's and a Projects place for folks to give updates and collaborate on things?
just getting the missing ones now... /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />Dogbones wrote:QUOTE (Dogbones @ Apr 5 2007, 02:32 AM) Waiting on a little more info.
But if you want to collect ALL of the artwork as either 32 bit bmp's or png's that would be a great start. It sounds like you are almost there.
QUOTE There are a number of utilities that can batch convert 16 bit bmp's to 32 bit bmp's as well as bmp's to png's.[/quote]
i was planning on making my own tools to convert the original 24 bit textures and add appropriate alpha channels based on what the image is used for (lists of where it is used from core dump).
i already have written code that does most of the functions i need, so making the tools will just be a copy+paste job with a few extra sections added
QUOTE It is my understanding we don't need to worry about alpha values at the moment so just keep things simple for now.[/quote]
it from what kgjv was saying, it sounded like the allegiance engine would no longer calculate alpha channels and it would use the value stored in the texture,
that's why i was asking about how allegiance calculates the alpha for a bullet sprite (if its just take the grey scale value of a pixel and use that as the alpha, or something else)
me wrote:ah, so if i have all my art in 24bit bmp i will need to convert it to a 32bit version?
the format the files are in doesn't matter yet, they can be converted when they are finished.KGJV wrote:yes 32bpp. it'll avoid the engine to compute the alpha. just make this in the bmp/png/whatever .
Last edited by madpeople on Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Orion I think you're confusing 2 things.
We're in the Artwork forum not the dev forum.
It's all about art and the format must be widely supported by the tools artists use.
Files size could be relevant for sharing time between artists and dev team, so lossless compression is a plus but not mandatory.
Now concerning DDS, it's now mainly used on 'build' side and that's code side not art side. Artists shouldnt use it anymore directly because they dont need to, there are tools to generate this format IF needed.
DDS only advantage is for textures, cube maps and mipmap levels WITH compression when there are memory issues on the video card (providing the card supports DXTn texture compression) AND if there is few available cpu time for preprocessing ressources.
As of today, Alleg only use textures, no cube maps or mipmap and current engine cant deal with DXTn texture compression.
I'd never ask an artist to work with the DDS format. Why would he bother with this?
If we eventually upgrade the engine to use compressed textures, mips, maps and other goodies then we'll probably perform either "build time operations" on the artwork to preprocess things (so here eventually we could use DDS) or "runtime operations" (cpu only) when loading bitmaps.
So it's not my call but I wouldnt recommend the DDS format, it adds complexity where it's not needed.
We're in the Artwork forum not the dev forum.
It's all about art and the format must be widely supported by the tools artists use.
Files size could be relevant for sharing time between artists and dev team, so lossless compression is a plus but not mandatory.
Now concerning DDS, it's now mainly used on 'build' side and that's code side not art side. Artists shouldnt use it anymore directly because they dont need to, there are tools to generate this format IF needed.
DDS only advantage is for textures, cube maps and mipmap levels WITH compression when there are memory issues on the video card (providing the card supports DXTn texture compression) AND if there is few available cpu time for preprocessing ressources.
As of today, Alleg only use textures, no cube maps or mipmap and current engine cant deal with DXTn texture compression.
I'd never ask an artist to work with the DDS format. Why would he bother with this?
If we eventually upgrade the engine to use compressed textures, mips, maps and other goodies then we'll probably perform either "build time operations" on the artwork to preprocess things (so here eventually we could use DDS) or "runtime operations" (cpu only) when loading bitmaps.
So it's not my call but I wouldnt recommend the DDS format, it adds complexity where it's not needed.
QUOTE yes 32bpp. it'll avoid the engine to compute the alpha. just make this in the bmp/png/whatever .[/quote]
I shoulda be more 'clear' here /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
compute = simply padding with opaque. As of today the engine doesnt even know what "alpha" is:)
So dont bother 'computing' the alpha if you dont have it. pad with opaque.
I shoulda be more 'clear' here /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
compute = simply padding with opaque. As of today the engine doesnt even know what "alpha" is:)
So dont bother 'computing' the alpha if you dont have it. pad with opaque.