Des+? (Belts) v Abom (IC)

ImmortalZ · Post by **ImmortalZ** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:53 pm

zarcain wrote:QUOTE (zarcain @ Jul 5 2006, 09:48 PM) my connection dropped during that...
ah, I wasn't doing very well anyway.
Is the ejects section how many people you ejected, or how many times you were ejected?

Kills = How many times you ejected others
Ejects = How many times you ejected.

deschain · Post by **deschain** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:51 pm

Typhoone wrote:QUOTE (Typhoone @ Jul 5 2006, 04:52 PM) The carrier bombing was a big turn-around for IC. There was a lot of good coordination on it and the two bombers aspect helped as well. The other base was their sup high-left. The last 30 minutes of the game had the IC team discussing the incredible ridiculous power of Belter economy.

Does this go to show, that an un-gauranteed strategy (IC sup enh carrier) versus a tried and tested default one (belter tac) is always a loss? I hope not; otherwise Allegiance will become less spontaneous and fun. Need more quick thinking like DD & Abom's work on the carrier bobmer push to keep these unique games going.

Imagine if Abom "didn't have the stack" and how fast IC would have been wiped out without that offensive come-back. Oh well, just one of those great games, they aren't rare, but are distancing themselves.... Best;

Ty.

I do not quite agree that Belters Tac is a guaranteed Strategy. As fast as the Tac is seen and the enemy bombs they have a good chance of blowing that Tac even if defending team has sniper 1 Hunter 2 Sfs. Which means that after Tac is built enemy has an absolute minimum of 10 Minutes to blow that Tac before Belts get Adv Tech (If someone can get Adv Tech with Belts after 8 minutes of building, on normal money in early game, I will be extremely surprised).

What I mean is, Belters Tac is not without its vulnerabilities, like any other strategy. And without them Carriers we would have had Adv Tech up a lot earlier (unless of course, other team had gone Tac).

Thanks for a great game though, and thanks Champy for taking over the reigns.

To our team. 'ym

mcwarren4 · Post by **mcwarren4** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:57 pm

deschain wrote:QUOTE (deschain @ Jul 5 2006, 01:51 PM) If someone can get Adv Tech with Belts after 8 minutes of building, on normal money in early game, I will be extremely surprised).

My record for getting belters sbs up is a few seconds over 14 minutes into the game, that's including buying a carrier to push forward after the tac built (I was using it as a home rip allowing me to get my tele out to the Si rock). I've never tried it but I bet you can break the 14 minute mark pretty easily if you sacrifice expanding.

Typhoone · Post by **Typhoone** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:51 pm

Typhoone wrote:QUOTE (Typhoone @ Jul 5 2006, 09:52 AM) Does this go to show, that an un-gauranteed strategy (IC sup enh carrier) versus a tried and tested default one (belter tac) is always a loss?

Perhaps belters tac is not garuanteed, but there are serious benefits compared to say, IC tac. If you successfully bomb belters tac before adv. is up; They still keep the SFs and the (more than likely) GAs that the comm researched which will still be a hamper to you. Sure you've eliminated (temporarily) their game-winning tech but even if they choose NOT to rebuild (which with their econ as discussed so easily permits them to do) its still a great starting strategy....

Heck! Even if your plan is to go belters Sup! A starting Tac is still sound. I don't know, a little tipsy right now (*phew* world cup game). Best;

Ty.

guitarism · Post by **guitarism** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:42 am

Belter's tac is a crazy mad strat in the hands of even a moderate team skill level. The fact that A) tac tech floats and

Belters can mount anything on that SF is awesome enough. Add in the extra hull, the lack of shields meaning that you don't have idiots launching with extra sig, your set. In addition, with belters economy now like it is (thank you Noir) you can buy two new tech every miner load. Factor in how cheap tech bases are, you can spam tac's across the map and not worry about the bomb runs.....

nerf belts tac

deschain · Post by **deschain** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:42 am

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Jul 6 2006, 05:42 AM) Belter's tac is a crazy mad strat in the hands of even a moderate team skill level. The fact that A) tac tech floats and Belters can mount anything on that SF is awesome enough. Add in the extra hull, the lack of shields meaning that you don't have idiots launching with extra sig, your set. In addition, with belters economy now like it is (thank you Noir) you can buy two new tech every miner load. Factor in how cheap tech bases are, you can spam tac's across the map and not worry about the bomb runs.....

nerf belts tac

If Belters Tac needs nerfing, then so does the stack. Do you know what else needs nerfing? Bomb rushing! Bomb Rushing is cheating, FACE THE FACTS!

If it can beat the stack it needs nerfing. 'yy

And guitar, are you trying to tell me that their is nothing IC (With or without a stack) can do against Belters Tac?

guitarism · Post by **guitarism** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:06 am

I'm saying that without advaced warning (knowing EXACTLY where the tac con is going) and having bombers, there really is nothing you can do. Any decent belts team wil have PU hunt2, and they can mount gat1/2 onboard their SF. While you bomb, even if you get the tac (1st one) your econ will be dead. Then the belts throw a new tac out, and your fully screwed.

deschain · Post by **deschain** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:40 am

As for Belters Econ, it is as it has always been. I might be wrong but on DN, Belters miners are the same as they were on the old zone core, are they not?

So for anyone to say Belters Econ is broken this far down the line means that people have missed something for the last 6 years. As for Belters Tac, the last "perk" was not faction specific and was indeed applied to all Factions (Except Rix and TF of course) Hunters. Although I could be wrong here too...

So Noir IMO could either; nerf all Hunters back to what they were prior. Or he could leave it as it is.

ImmortalZ · Post by **ImmortalZ** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:08 am

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Jul 6 2006, 12:06 PM) I'm saying that without advaced warning (knowing EXACTLY where the tac con is going) and having bombers, there really is nothing you can do. Any decent belts team wil have PU hunt2, and they can mount gat1/2 onboard their SF. While you bomb, even if you get the tac (1st one) your econ will be dead. Then the belts throw a new tac out, and your fully screwed.

There are two things in this game that helps you achieve that - EWS Probes and these wonder ships called scouts. No, the probes are for seeing stuff and not for that.

Dengaroth · Post by **Dengaroth** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:22 am

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Jul 6 2006, 09:06 AM) Any decent belts team wil have PU hunt2, and they can mount gat1/2 onboard their SF.

1) Hunter2 is about as frequent as DF2, and the team's decency has nothing to do with finding it
2) Why exactly would you want to actually put gat1/2 on your SF? Snipers have better accuracy, better range, and a comparable damage output (actually better for shooting a bomber, due to their better modifier vs. shields and med hull)

Besides, what does it matter? If the belts team has SFs, they've had the Tac for at least 4 mins, and you said it yourself that

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Jul 6 2006, 06:42 AM) In addition, with belters economy now like it is (thank you Noir) you can buy two new tech every miner load.

So he can buy hunt2 and sniper1 with one miner load anyway.

While we're at it:

[quote=""Belts econ in MS 1.25""]Miner capacity: 0.8
Mining speed: 0.6
Helium Yield: 1.25
Cost modifier: 1.25
Miner speeds: 100/100/120[/quote]

[quote=""Belts econ in DN 04.45""]Miner capacity: 0.8
Mining speed: 0.6
Helium Yield: 1.25
Cost modifier: 1.25
Miner speeds: 100/100/120[/quote]

Hence, Noir has nothing to do with what the belts econ looks like now.

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Jul 6 2006, 06:42 AM) nerf belts tac

Stop participating in discussions where you have nothing worthwhile to add. Preferrably, stop posting altogether until you get at least a semblance of a clue.