What Jonan said.
If you were sitting still and an xxrm was heading your way, all you'd have to do is sidethrust away, and the missile would take some time to slow down, reorient, speed up, and then you'd just sidethurst again until the missile burnt all its fuel.
How big are Allegiance ships?
It wouldn't have to slow down or anything like that. It would just:
Calculate a new intercept course (not difficult)
Find the difference in the vectors between its current course and the new course (easy)
Orient itself along the new vector and fire thrusters until its present course matches the new intercept.
Getting it all perfectly requires a bit of higher math, but it’s a trivial calculation for a modern computer. Heck, the missile would use less fuel doing it than you would.
Calculate a new intercept course (not difficult)
Find the difference in the vectors between its current course and the new course (easy)
Orient itself along the new vector and fire thrusters until its present course matches the new intercept.
Getting it all perfectly requires a bit of higher math, but it’s a trivial calculation for a modern computer. Heck, the missile would use less fuel doing it than you would.
Observe, for your head is full of sawdust and lies*
This is how a missile would thrust. Green is thrust applied, blue is where it is going.
This is what would happen if the yellow hit box was where the dotted line would be and the missile was aiming for it. When the missile gets to the blue dot, the yellow box moves and the missile has to go through a circular maneuver to align again.
I wish I could find some sort of asteroid-like game which demonstrates this...
*lies.
This is how a missile would thrust. Green is thrust applied, blue is where it is going.
This is what would happen if the yellow hit box was where the dotted line would be and the missile was aiming for it. When the missile gets to the blue dot, the yellow box moves and the missile has to go through a circular maneuver to align again.
I wish I could find some sort of asteroid-like game which demonstrates this...
*lies.
Thats very pretty! /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":biggrin:" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
I was going to explain how this didn't make any sense, but then my tired eyes went out of focus and suddenly I could see the picture clearly. Funny how that works. You have my vote for slow down or whatever.
I was going to explain how this didn't make any sense, but then my tired eyes went out of focus and suddenly I could see the picture clearly. Funny how that works. You have my vote for slow down or whatever.
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Terralthra
- Posts: 1748
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:00 am
- Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
So which has more powerful thrust...the ship dodging or the missile chasing? At what distance to target does the missile's coarse corrective thrust fail to overcome it's previous vector? Does the missile employ multiple thrusters in different directions or diverted propulsion (vectored thrust)?
I can see this argument both ways, but without all of the data it seems inconclusive...
I can see this argument both ways, but without all of the data it seems inconclusive...
Ugh, unless the missile has an actual reaction control system (as the ships do) don't even tell me about reading about it. Assuming the missiles we are talking about in this thread are the kind that are used in the game, the only engine it has is the main one, which would allow for very limited steering (your AB can't turn for s***, don't tell me it has an RCS)
Also, your vectored thrust argument does not take into account the sheer mass that these missiles would need to have. I can see it on the stealth-mounted LRM, but, come on, if you wanted to take out anything larger than a bomber without shooting four missiles, you'd need something with less maneuverability.
Lots of explosives definitely mean something. Cruise missiles and aleph res' take some time to accelerate to a reasonable speed, so they would have problems turning no matter what kind of propulsion they have.
Yes, what you say is possible, plausible, useful, and real, but it's not like Allegiance missiles have anything other than a moving nozzle, if that.
At any rate, this argument doesn't make a bit of difference, guys. If the missiles in the game were designed to be actually effective, interceptors would be a thing of the past, and nobody wants that. Long-range combat would probably use something other than missiles unless the target was immobile and couldn't shoot anything down. "Real space combat" would consist of getting close enough to use lasers and then shooting nukes or EMPs.
Also, your vectored thrust argument does not take into account the sheer mass that these missiles would need to have. I can see it on the stealth-mounted LRM, but, come on, if you wanted to take out anything larger than a bomber without shooting four missiles, you'd need something with less maneuverability.
Lots of explosives definitely mean something. Cruise missiles and aleph res' take some time to accelerate to a reasonable speed, so they would have problems turning no matter what kind of propulsion they have.
Yes, what you say is possible, plausible, useful, and real, but it's not like Allegiance missiles have anything other than a moving nozzle, if that.
At any rate, this argument doesn't make a bit of difference, guys. If the missiles in the game were designed to be actually effective, interceptors would be a thing of the past, and nobody wants that. Long-range combat would probably use something other than missiles unless the target was immobile and couldn't shoot anything down. "Real space combat" would consist of getting close enough to use lasers and then shooting nukes or EMPs.
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Encabulate
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:10 pm
- Location: Banana Republic
one: what would run out of fuel first? the missile or the dodging ship?
two: the missile wouldn't need to be all that accurate, just fast. it would turn itself into very high speed shrapnel on the way in that would do heavy damage.
three: finally someone brings up the laser argument. empty space. negligible beam dispersion. practically unlimited laser range. light speed propagation, almost no leading the target. point and shoot.
two: the missile wouldn't need to be all that accurate, just fast. it would turn itself into very high speed shrapnel on the way in that would do heavy damage.
three: finally someone brings up the laser argument. empty space. negligible beam dispersion. practically unlimited laser range. light speed propagation, almost no leading the target. point and shoot.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a night.
Set fire to him and he is warm for the rest of his life.
Set fire to him and he is warm for the rest of his life.
In that yellow box diagram, it looks like the missile, starting at the blue dot, is going the opposite direction of the yellow box and just whizzed by it. That's the worst possible scenario. Heck, looking at the missile's initial trajectory, it wasn't heading for the yellow dotted at all. So not only does it start at a terrible approach vector, it starts off-course!
And the box can move that far, between the time the missile gets to the dot, and when the missile would reach it? Yes, it is very difficult to hit a target that can teleport.
An asteroids-like game? Try Allegiance. It's close enough. I propose we put it to a test. You in a small ship, say a scout, and me in a destroyer. No CM allowed. We will see how easily you dodge hunter-killer 2s. If it is as easy as you say, you will dodge each one. Deal?
If Alleg's physics are a concern, it is possible to make a core without drag. I can whip one up pretty quick. But the results will be the same either way, I assure you.
And the box can move that far, between the time the missile gets to the dot, and when the missile would reach it? Yes, it is very difficult to hit a target that can teleport.
An asteroids-like game? Try Allegiance. It's close enough. I propose we put it to a test. You in a small ship, say a scout, and me in a destroyer. No CM allowed. We will see how easily you dodge hunter-killer 2s. If it is as easy as you say, you will dodge each one. Deal?
If Alleg's physics are a concern, it is possible to make a core without drag. I can whip one up pretty quick. But the results will be the same either way, I assure you.