Donald Trump

[SumVeritas]

I don't care about if Vietnam is doing good or not, that's secodary to how the Trump administration sees Vietnam, a place to dump US criminals.

Let's take you Brit buddy example here. There are some differences:
First, your brit buddy is a Brit National, with a brit passport and a brit citizenship, with all the UK rights and responsibilities that goes with it.
Second, he was an immigrant in Canada, he and his family moved from the UK to Canada for w/e reason.

Let's say that your friend is a South Vietnamese War refugee:
First, he's most likely not a Vietnam National, with no Vietnamese Passport, nor Vietnamese citizenship. And if he was a Vietnam national, at the moment his family asked for Refuge for war reasons. They were labeled enemies of the State and probably lost his citzenship and passport. Either way, he won't have any of the Vietnam citizens rights and responsabilities. For the Vietnam State and society THEY AREN'T LEGALLY VIETNAMESE. So they aren't their criminals, you see.
Second, They aren't immigrants as such, they entered INVITED BY THE USA as war refugees, a totally different statute.

Mind that the discussion it's only for the pre 1995 immigrants, the ones that Vietnam and the USA agree to barr of deportation. My guess it was more of a way to protect Saigon Criminals from being judged in Vietnam.

[Papsmear]

If what you are saying is true about these refugees and that they have lost their Vietnamese citizenship and passport then it makes even less sense to me that they would not become American citizens as quickly as possible once setting up house and home in the United States.
Instead they choose to remain a person with no country.
Some got their citizenship some didn't, I have no idea why the refugees that didn't get their American citizenship did what they did so I'm sticking with apathy.
Does staying for 28+ years as a man with no country in America, who I'm sure was aware of the potential to be deported, since it was in the news a few times, seem like a very smart move to you?

[zombywoof]

Question for you, papsmear:

If American Citizenship was unavailable to these people for reasons outside of their immediate control, would that change your mind?

Take a look at this idealized process: https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us ... tizen.html

"You can speak, read, and write English.
You will be tested on this during the naturalization interview at a USCIS office."

"You can pass a brief oral test covering U.S. history and government."

Now put yourself in the shoes of someone who came here fleeing south Vietnam. Do you think maybe there were some barriers that might have made it prohibitively difficult for these asylum seekers to pass these two requirements? Do you also maybe think that a government that has literal white supremacists running it might take steps to prevent non-white people from succeeding in the above processes?

[sambasti]

Speaking of things that are easy, most Americans couldn't pass the test.

[Papsmear]

P1 you seem to be grasping at straws and making excuses.
Although I don't know the numbers some Vietnamese were able to pass the test and become citizens so your argument seems to be rather lame.

So I'm still sticking with apathy

[Papsmear]

QUOTE (sambasti @ Dec 14 2018, 08:18 PM) Speaking of things that are easy, most Americans couldn't pass the test.

So Americans are just as bad at tests as Vietnamese are?

[ryujin]

QUOTE (Papsmear @ Dec 14 2018, 09:41 PM) P1 you seem to be grasping at straws and making excuses.
Although I don't know the numbers some Vietnamese were able to pass the test and become citizens so your argument seems to be rather lame.

So I'm still sticking with apathy

a couple people out of a billion made it to the moon. surely we all can

[Papsmear]

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article ... d-states-5

Have a look at the above website and then continue with your bull@#(! arguments please.
I'm pretty sure apathy applies for some of the poor 5000 convicted criminal deportees that may get removed from the US, since they did have 28+ years to get their @#(! together..
Proportionately they are a VERY small percentage (approximately 0.05%) of Vietnamese immigrants to America.

[zombywoof]

What exactly is it you think your website is trying to prove?

I have explained all of the reasons we can't send back the people who came here pre 1995:

1) We said we would not do so and agreed not to do so as part of a treaty.

2) The fact that these people are refugees is our fault and so we need to claim ownership over the issues that come with it, i.e. if they commit a crime on our soil, then we should deal with that as if they were our responsibility and not some random foreignlings.

3) There are institutional barriers in place against naturalization of immigrants that makes it proportionately more difficult to naturalize the poorer your circumstances.

I also rebutted your point that "well they're just lazy and didn't become citizens" with the fact that it is likely that these are people who were made promises by the US government that the US government did not uphold, since the US government has a long history of making, and then not delivering on, promises.

I'm not grasping at straws and I don't know why you're bringing up that this is a small proportion of vietnamese immigrants. I'm not suggesting that somehow all vietnamese immigrants are criminals, I'm saying that for the above three reasons, criminals who happened to immigrate here pre-1995 should not be deported for a variety of reasons.

[Papsmear]

We are both making assumptions as to why these people are being threatened with deportation.
Unless we delved into all 5000 cases, I guess we will never actually know the truth.
Too bad Globey doesn't post here anymore at least he might be able to provide his perspective and first hand knowledge.
That being said, I'm dropping out of this particular discussion in the Donald Trump thread.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/a ... -chief-of/
Now that's funny.