Star Citizen / Elite: Dangerous / Enemy Starfighter / No Man's Sky

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:16 pm

I wonder how much attention you guys are paying to the space shooters currently in development.

Of the big two, Elite and SC I expect Elite to be out (in the first iteration, so no human avatars and no landing on planets) in six to nine months, and SC to take at least 2 - 3 years still as it's trying to do everything at once, with a company created by deep (crowd funded) pockets from nothing.

Enemy Starfighter looks like Homeworld, with 1st person combat flight added in. It has the potential to be a great Wing Commander / X-Wing style game, but I'm not sure it has any multiplayer stuff planned. I do expect to see PvE co-operative multiplayer though, which would bump it up a notch in my books.

No Man's Sky is fairly unkonwn to me. It seem like a procedurally generated solo adventure. Cool project, but the visuals and depth of gameplay may well let it down.

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But now the actual though & question. What do any of these games need to offer to provide a truly great game, the sort you see yourself playing for years? What are the turnoffs and pitfalls that would ruin them for you?

Here's my current thinking.

Star Citizen promises massive MMO scope, and has attrated the (somewhat unwanted by the devs) attention of the EvE Goons and other people used to no-holds-barred guild vs. guild contests. As a result they've managed to sell incredible amounts of pre-order ships, with people buying several corvettes (mini carriers for a couple of fighters really) at 1000$ each. For those not following this the vettes require a crew of 10 to function at full efficiency.

Now Chris Roberts has repeatedly said that he wants SC to feel like a living, breathing universe, and the play experience to be tailored for individual players and small groups of friends. The universe is supposed to be populated 90% by NPCs, and players are not meant to have control of factories, space stations and such. Taking total control of the economy like in EvE is not meant to be possible.

Additionally there's a very, very nice "Death of a Spaceman" article floating around. I recommend googling it up and reading it. In theory the consequences of death and injury are such that it should discourage very reckless play.
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But here's the problem. Currently it seems like people will be allowed to have alt characters, and some very determined people from EvE and other games are already planning truly destructive and deconstructive metagaming. Bad reputation and financial problems from playing a mindless reaver pirate don't really work that well if the same player can play a law-abiding trader and fund his reaver antics from this completely separate character's pockets. Throwaway alts can be used for griefing and sucide ganking, as well as joining organisations and destroying them from within, all the while enjoying good reputation for your "primary" character.

I fear the player base CR has attracted will try to distort the game quite far from what he wants to create. There are things like limited instance size and PvP vs. PvE slider that will limit the power of large guilds, but it remains to be seen how easily those can be worked around.

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Now for Elite the (dynamic) instance limit is lower (about 30 ppl at a time). There can be tons of NPC ships present, but only a good squad game's worth of actual humans. additionally capital ships are at least initially restricted to the NPCs, and there are no plans for player owned stations and such. The focus of the game is much more in personal / small group of friends play style. This will probably make the game uninteresting to Goons and their ilk. Additionally you can fully tailor how much you want to interact with other players in Elite, so you can play in the persistent universe, but only "see" people on your friends list. You'll never be instanced with other, potentially hostile / rude / immersion breaking humans if you so choose.

Now many of those things in Elite sound great, but the flipside of that and the _huge_ procedurally generated environment may turn out to be that it's an awesome tech demo and screensaver, but ends up feeling sterile. I hope not, Elite is the game I have the highest hopes for, but a lot of the stuff that will carry it for long term gameplay are still unrevealed. The dogfighting already looks great, and something that an Alleg jockey can really sink his or her teeth in.

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No Man's Sky and Enemy Starfighter aren't MMOs, so they'll stand or fall on other merits. I suspect that no matter how good they will be, I'm not terribly interested in games I can't play with my friends these days.

Elzam_ · Post by **Elzam_** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:12 pm

The problem with any MMO is that people are going to make griefing accounts, you can't get around it. Some people (like me) get off on causing others distress in games they find serious.

I'm not expecting much from either game.

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:14 pm

Elzam V. Branstein wrote:QUOTE (Elzam V. Branstein @ Jan 27 2014, 03:12 PM) The problem with any MMO is that people are going to make griefing accounts, you can't get around it. Some people (like me) get off on causing others distress in games they find serious.

I'm not expecting much from either game.

So if you're not expecting much of them, would you really pay 40+ dollars just to go there and $#@! with people? I know people do this, but it seems like a clinical condition more than anything else.

More importantly. When you do that, and get banned, would you put in another 40+ dollars to start over with another account, and start messing with people again with your starter ship? How much money are you willing to piss into the wind to "harvest tears"? EvE lets people get away with this, even ends up encouraging it. Elite will inherently let people avoid any possibility of this, and SC will try to have significant penalties for such behaviour.

Psychosis · Post by **Psychosis** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:41 pm

honestly, I am not interested in any of these games. I love the space genre, but I just don't like the offerings here

Elzam_ · Post by **Elzam_** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:19 am

Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ Jan 27 2014, 09:14 AM) So if you're not expecting much of them, would you really pay 40+ dollars just to go there and $#@! with people? I know people do this, but it seems like a clinical condition more than anything else.

More importantly. When you do that, and get banned, would you put in another 40+ dollars to start over with another account, and start messing with people again with your starter ship? How much money are you willing to piss into the wind to "harvest tears"? EvE lets people get away with this, even ends up encouraging it. Elite will inherently let people avoid any possibility of this, and SC will try to have significant penalties for such behaviour.

It was to my understanding that you only needed to buy the game once (For SC), and you could make as many accounts as you pleased. I might've been mistaken.

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:24 am

Elzam V. Branstein wrote:QUOTE (Elzam V. Branstein @ Jan 28 2014, 04:19 AM) It was to my understanding that you only needed to buy the game once (For SC), and you could make as many accounts as you pleased. I might've been mistaken.

Behave badly enough and you'll get banned. Then a dedicated griefer will buy a new account, and a new one, and a new one...

Elzam_ · Post by **Elzam_** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:08 pm

Adept wrote:QUOTE (Adept @ Jan 28 2014, 06:24 AM) Behave badly enough and you'll get banned. Then a dedicated griefer will buy a new account, and a new one, and a new one...

The question is, do you ban the user in such a way that the client no longer works or do you just ban the account and the client will continue to work fine? For clarification. Is the game itself that you pay for linked to your account. If it is, then yes, new account every time you get banned. If not, you just make new accounts.

Post by **Raveen** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:29 pm

For me I'm not too fussed about hte MMO side of things. Sure it'd be nice to fly a mission (or whatever the combat model ends up being) every now and again with friends, but my gaming time is so haphazard at the moment that I can't dedicate the time to concentrate on the traditional MMO things like levelling up and popintlessly killing hundreds of Kobolds or whatever. I want a game I can pick up and have fun in either on my own or with a group, if I so choose. Elite looks more likely to supply that experience.

Cadillac · Post by **Cadillac** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:27 pm

You no take space candle!!

Adaven · Post by **Adaven** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:34 am

Agree with Rav.

Other things I'm looking for:

Teamwork
Fostering and rewarding teamwork needs to be a primary focus.
Communication: More than Mumble, TS, or built in clone. Waypoints, mini-maps, and/or other ways of orienting yourself and teammates in the game space are crucial. If you can't find your teammates, it is hard to coordinate efforts as a team. The ability to communicate while doing other game tasks is important as well.Pacing: If it is too fast, then people don't have time to communicate and don't have enough time to help a buddy who is under fire. You obviously can't slow things down too much or people will get bored, but there needs to be a reason to wait a little now and then.
Variety
Changing conditions reward different skills / strategies. This encourages creativity, reduces the onset of boredom, and provides more opportunities for each player to find something they are good at.
Landscape: Some randomized elements to the topology of the game. Fully / partially randomized maps, weapons, etc.Landscaping: This is the biggie: players should be able to influence the landscape themselves. Capital ships, bases, deployables... all could fit the bill. Something the player can do that will leave a lasting impression. Ways of "claiming" territory or relative strength (and ways to lose it).