Grexit or not? Bankrun?

[TheCorsair]

Kick Germany out of the eurozone... let them have their beloved Deutchmark and then they wont have to bail out ANYONE

Not France, not Greece, not Spain, Not Ireland, Not Portugal, not Italy.. no one

After all the German economy is the only one not in a recession...

So let's all release Germany and the northern surplus countries from their burden and need their own "austerity measures", mass unemployment etc.. after all eastern germany is paid for/supported by the western part still.

This way the south can get such much needed devaluation and become competitive

but of course this won't happen because the Deutchmark will quickly appreciate and they will have priced their exports out of the Market.

European solidarity..... yeah right!

[DasSmiter]

Yea sorry if this is a bit of a weird question, but how come the other Euro states are even considering dropping Greece?

Now is the time for a political move to lessen state sovereignty from the Euro team. As costly as it is to bail out Greece I'd say the price is cheap for the ability to start the ball rolling on deemphasizing individual state power and pushing more onto the central Euro government. You give certain changes up (perhaps declaring UK a special economic zone to protect their precious banking, giving Germany some promise on repayments from the general fund for the next 20 years, etc etc) to guarantee the bailout and then in exchange for the bailout you receive Greek support on some inititative, such as a constitutional amendment giving the Eurozone a "watchdog" power to stop this from happening in the future. Then for the next 10 years you expand these powers (through the upcoming economic crisis in Spain/Portugal) until the collective Eurozone can override individual state governments.

As a hidden bonus you socialize the @#(! out of the money floating around in Europe by buying German/French/English bailout money with political promises and powers. Media control is the biggest factor in whether or not you can pull it off really.

European citizens may, and probably will, fight to keep a collective government from overriding their own state's government. They'll cheer, however, as that same collective government overrides other states because (from my limited internet experience) there is less unity in Europe than you'd find in a pack of thieves.

[HJ_KG]

,

[TheCorsair]

To its besotted acolytes, the euro was to be the final icing on the cake of political union. It was an exquisitely crafted currency that would enable German efficiency to permeate the continent and usher in a dawn of prosperity and contentment. Sceptics said it would merely enable Germany to swamp lesser economies and wipe their exports from the map.

For a while, Germany knew it was on to a good thing and cross-subsidised (and lent) to cover the gap, much as the British Treasury sustains the UK's poorer regions. But a continent is not a nation. It has diverse loyalties and obligations. Sooner or later the subsidies and the lending would stop. That day is now. The sceptics were right.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...ty-exiting-euro

[Adept]

QUOTE (TheCorsair @ May 18 2012, 08:40 PM) Sooner or later the subsidies and the lending would stop. That day is now. The sceptics were right.

Living on subsidised debt has to stop anyway. Even the US can't keep living on debt from China forever.

I say you're wrong about the Euro and the EU. I guess we'll see who was right about five years from now.

[takingarms1]

QUOTE (TheCorsair @ May 18 2012, 11:59 AM) Kick Germany out of the eurozone... let them have their beloved Deutchmark and then they wont have to bail out ANYONE

I think this antipathy toward germany is hilarious. You realize if germany left the eurozone the whole thing would collapse, right? They are by far the strongest economy in Europe.

Hey I have an idea! How about you guys listen to the one country in your zone that has its @#(! together?

[clint]

If germany leave, other country can devaluate the euros, block frontier, and supress debt ahahaha

And for the theory :

Money is just an indicator for inequality. If you have no rich, you have no poor. Boot the rich from European Union = boot the poverty

[pkk]

The less members states the Euro has, the less important it is.

Euro was to large and important to fail.

Now we have to deal with that wrong assessment of risks.

[lexaal]

TC
Germany plays a big online war vs the rest of europe. Germany gunships ("lxl_Mercedes") use australian pirate gunners. (The)Serbia goes MIA and doesn't give any awards.

[TheCorsair]

QUOTE (TakingArms @ May 19 2012, 04:01 AM) I think this antipathy toward germany is hilarious. You realize if germany left the eurozone the whole thing would collapse, right? They are by far the strongest economy in Europe.

Another school of thought says otherwise

• Surely, the logical conclusion to Simon Jenkins's article, which was reinforced by the arguments in Austin Mitchell's letter (Letters, 16 May), is that Germany should be the one to leave the euro, not Greece or the other "southern European economies". When is someone going to argue that Germany's current financial strength is not simply a result of its industrial model, but also arises from the competitive advantage it obtains by being in the eurozone. If Germany was to leave the euro and readopt the deutschmark, the deutschmark would go through the roof and the German economy would become less competitive at a stroke, not only against the other members of the euro, but also against most other currencies, including the pound and the dollar. It would appear Mrs Merkel wants to have it both ways, austerity for everyone else, resting on Germany's export success as a result of a weak euro, not an inherently superior productivity.
Fred Pickering
High Peak, Derbyshire

QUOTE (TakingArms @ May 19 2012, 04:01 AM) Hey I have an idea! How about you guys listen to the one country in your zone that has its @#(! together?

They did!

Maastricht 'gravely undermined'

"The credibility of the Commission and the readiness of the members states to accept the authority of the Commission as the independent enforcer of the Maastricht criteria was obviously gravely undermined," he says. It was also a signal to everyone else in Europe.

"The view was that, ok, if the big boys won't adhere and impose discipline on themselves, they're going to be more relaxed in enforcing the treaty [on us]," recalls the former Deputy Finance Minister for Greece, Peter Doukas. "I mean, no-one can impose sanctions on Germany and France. They are the European superpowers. So they won't adhere. "The pressure was simply not there," Mr Doukas adds.

Europe is wise after the event.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087

Once the Euro was launched, many countries had difficulty meeting the SGP rules. In 2003, the largest economies in the eurozone, France and Germany, broke the rules. However, because these countries promised to reach the SGP targets as soon as possible, the Commission did not take strong action against them. This made the SGP look weak and the Council of the European Union decided to suspend it. In March 2005, the European Council agreed a reformed SGP with much more flexible rules. Even these were challenged in August 2007, when the French President, Nicholas Sarkozy, looked to revitalise the French economy outside the SGP framework.
http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/FSECON/EC10.htm

The fact is the South and many countries in Central Europe can't meet the industrial might of Germany,... not everyone can become such "good" germans... we're not blonde and blue eyed all of us...not part of the master race... and the euro one size fits all approach and obsession with inflation has a severe detrimental effect on the south... it's not just about debt and austerity but living standards...

It's not acceptable that even countries like Spain who had budget surpluses has 20%+ unemployment and youth unemployment...

The ECB needs to function as the US Fed does and be a lender of last resort and EIB needs to be able to use structural funds to invest in capital works that create jobs and make Europe stronger.