Comm Tourney

[Duckwarrior]

QUOTE (Clay_Pigeon @ Dec 6 2011, 04:58 PM) Keep the quality of commanders equal (ish) and it shouldn't be a problem. I recall in previous tourneys, you had folks who tried manipulating their pick, or preferring to sit out than fly for ____ com.

I think comms will become more equal in the latter stages if we do decide to run with a seed based format. The early games may well be more fun than expected if you have an equal split of the uber skilled folks, with the guys flying for the commander who is perceived to be weaker working their backsides off for an upset perhaps?

People would need to show up in time for the initial pick if they wanted to play the whole game. I would suggest that late joiners would be accommodated by re-opening the pick at various points during the game, once whoever was running it from the lobby decided that there were enough people of broadly similar abilities in NOAT to make it fair. It's not ideal, but we tried locking the lobby and that alienated players, and both commanders would have to put up with the same PITA of choosing new players while the game was in progress, so no advantage would be gained by one side.

QUOTE (gr4vity @ Dec 7 2011, 12:08 PM) When it seems necessary we could always give the commanders a few hiders to try and avoid the silly "I dont fly for this com" - attitude.

Also have you had any thoughts about the Format? I could imagine BO3 might be nice and perhaps some sort of seed based bracket (based on the com rank?)

Best of three for later stages maybe? I don't know, we'll vote on it probably. I think BO3 for the semis and final possibly?

My opinion is that hiders should be parked by everyone for the tourney, it will potentially ruin the whole object of the exercise ie: some interesting games, if people are lurking with hiders PMing commanders who they want to fly for. I guess that this will have to be on the trust system, and hopefully everyone who wants to play will be adult enough (I just realised I used trust and adult in the same sentence on the Allegiance board...go me) to behave.

On the other hand would it really be a big enough of a deal for someone to go to the bother of trying to manipulate the pick rather than have to fly for MrC ( ) for one game? You aren't going to be playing with or for these people for the whole tournament.

QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Dec 7 2011, 02:03 PM) I'd be happy to help with organisation etc., seeding based on command rank sounds like a good idea.

Thanks! Yes please to all of your offers, see above for the seeding doo da. I'd like to keep the discussion in an open thread because I will almost certainly try and plan something ridiculous in and spidey won't be afraid to call me something insulting and xenophobic if I do, probably involving a red coat.

QUOTE (spideycw @ Dec 7 2011, 05:04 PM) I was going to suggest random comm games instead of seeded games. Generally speaking most comms who enter will be very equal.

Are teams auto balanced or picked from lobby?

We need to work out a format that doesn't produce any glaringly embarrassing oversights. That said, definitely AB off. The comm picks his or her team, it's their team, win or lose, no excuses about the horrible players they were forced to herd.

Random comm games could be good. But if we do go with seeds and a game sucks for a team because I am pitted against grav, they would unfortunately have to suck it up. At least everyone would know that in the next game, which could be imediately afterwards if the first was relatively short, they will be flying for another comm who probably has: A. An actual clue about how to command. B. An actual clue about how to pick a team.

I don't want to deter relative doofii (like me) from commanding, I think everybody who wants one should at least get a swing. If command ability is all it's cracked up to be (and I don't doubt that it is) then the cream will rise to the top and progress to the next round. Of course upsets are likely to occur, random things have big bearings on games, but by and large the better guys will progress.


Last thing, very important. If this thing is a rampant success, then I demand the title of Duckus Maximus. Saviour of Allegiance. Defender of the Realm. In perpetuity. If it is a horrible failure then I will settle for two virgins (not Brood or OMB).

[Sundance_]

Here's another important decision...


Winner takes all

OR

Best of 3?

[MrChaos]

do NOT use Autobalance

explained for the 39398834939822233 time
Current AB is designed for the old ranking system and not AllegSkills. AB smells of poo

Im not going to command Dickie Duckie old shoe, just be a cannonfodder

[spideycw]

We had a huge problem in the past with back seat comms essentially running the team. How do you deal with this?

[Nightflame]

You more or less can't. What are you going to do? Make no one but the comm allowed to give drone orders? Have requesting tech illegal? The only reasonable rule I can think of is to make *asking* for help against the rules.

However. Backseat comms are only useful if they're notably better than the actual commander. Given that there aren't many really good comms around, you can just ask those few to not give excessive help and rely on the honor system. So what if someone gets a backseat commander? Backseat comms come from the pickpool. If a person is very valuable because they'll help you command, so are the really good dogfighters your opponent may be getting.

Thinking about it, there's an idea I'd like to propose anyway: Why not disallow the commanders to launch? Make commanders ONLY useful for commanding, so having someone else command will effectively put you down a player.

You can't stop it entirely, but maybe discouragement is good enough?

[vogue]

since when do people listen to back seat comms, only cases i've seen are complete newbies and they don't know any better

[Broodwich]

I think what spidey is referring to is the last alleg wars thing where there were supposed to be multiple separate teams with individual commanders etc and you would have to rely on not only your teams but your commanders to be evenly balanced out or whatever. Instead what happened was aarm got all his teams on the same ts channel and pretty much told everyone what to do. It's not like he was cheating or anything, but it kinda broke the spirit of what was envisioned.

There really is nothing you can do about backseating. I think the notion that the tourney is different than a regular game, where the players want to win as badly as possible so they yell at the voob com how to do everything because he is most likely a $#@!ing moron, will help. This is a test of the commander's skills and if you are constantly telling him what to do and he wins then you just made a bad commander advance and you will probably have to fly for him again. Light backseating and having people manage miners and stuff is pretty integral even in squad games. Telling people to stop entirely is unrealistic, but saying the commanders should earn their own way will probably dissuade the majority.

In the end, its alleg. There is going to be bitching about 20 different things after each game no matter how perfect you make it. I guess I'm just a laissez faire kinda guy

[Cadillac]

@Ducky - FYI the Events forum is open to all, the sub-forum I was talking about was for emergency/private requests etc. not that I bother with the hoodlums in there anyway.

I should be able to handle the more procedural aspects of the tournament easily (@Alleg presence, News/ASGS announcements etc.) You can either PM me what to say in said messages or leave me to my own devices (the latter is done at your own risk, as Kramari has discovered ). Could also fool around with a google doc and make some sort of spreadsheet once the participants have been confirmed (if we're keeping their identities public).

Don't know if you want specialised unseen maps for this, but I'd suggest reserving such things for the final rounds - purely because chugging that amount of maps out is going to be impossible (especially if we're going for a best of three series after an initial knockout phase).

Spidey has YET to provide me with a worthy adversary list for events (you lazy eight-legged bum!) so this should tie in nicely with the tournament if he comes up with one.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

[HSharp]

How long do you want this tourney to last?

With the number of participants signed up so far I don't think a best of 3 is feasible unless you want the tourney to last for a few months.

In regards to back-seating I don't think it's going to be a big issue, at the end it's the commanders victory or defeat and even the great comms need help from lieutenants to lead attacks or defense and get input from the team.

I want to know what plans are in regards for comms who drop midway and rematches (what if both comms drop).

I think the safest way to avoid any drama is to have a mod on each team, not to just be a fly on the wall but just to keep an eye out while playing for any shenanigans.

[Dome]

Hopefully we can get this comm tourney to coexist with the squad league and the proposed monthly doubles. If would be easy to either use a current or create a new forum dedicated to coordinating these things and flow through an events lead as capable as Wurf.

Let me help. 2 weekends of the month are for league. 1 weekend for comm tourney. 1 weekend for monthly doubles.

Having something planned for each Sunday will only help this game. We should also start planning times of the week we attempt to have a decent pick up game prime time. If the old vets can be bothered to join AT ONE TIME during the week at a specified time that is broadcast to everyone then maybe we can again experience a decent pug.