Qadaffi Dead

Broodwich · Post by **Broodwich** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:39 am

i feel like the movie battle of britain would answer all these questions
dakka dakka dakka

raumvogel · Post by **raumvogel** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:20 am

WE shall fight on the beaches...we shall fight in the hills ... we will NEVER surrender.

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:28 pm

The Germans had a hard time with England. Even if the British hadn't angered Hitler and made him attack our cities (by bombing German cities first *whoops*

) there were things in motion which could've still played out in British favour or not enough in Germany's.

I think there are too many ifs and buts to say "if this one thing didn't happen..." because, well if that one thing didn't happen the the rest of the strategies used would've changed to suit also.

P.s IIRC the British lost like one ship during the BoB where the entire German Navy was destroyed. (This might not be fact as it was said on a BoB remembrance show last year clearly aimed at the British.)

link120 · Post by **link120** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:53 pm

you all playing with poo because your asses got saved by Russia whether you like it or not

turtlefist · Post by **turtlefist** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:11 pm

+ 1 Libya - piss off seppo swine

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:12 pm

k10xbai wrote:QUOTE (k10xbai @ Oct 22 2011, 01:53 PM) you all playing with poo because your asses got saved by Russia whether you like it or not

Could turn it round the other way, if Hitler invaded Russia instead of France then he could have taken out the Soviets before dealing with the West and it would have been All Quiet on the Eastern Front.

Dangeruss · Post by **Dangeruss** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:16 pm

Grimmwolf_GB wrote:QUOTE (Grimmwolf_GB @ Oct 21 2011, 02:54 PM) quotes taken from wiki

Sorry, that was not achieved by the brave french, but by the incapable german leadership, that let the british actually escape. Different versions of that stop order for the german army float around. A chance for Göring to prove the worth of the Luftwaffe, a chance for peace with the "Brothers" in Englang, etc... It was not because of brave and bitter defence by the french army. I am not at home, otherwise, I could give you some titles and authors of books about that disaster. (It was one for both the brits, as they lost their materiel and for the german, as they lost a major chance of capturing a huge number of british soldiers thus making the brits more inclined to a separate peace treaty.)

the halt order was enacted on the 24th of may and lasted until the 27th the embarkation ports and beaches were not taken untill the 4th of june.
we in the uk have a long proud history of handing the french thier arses and i post this purely in the spirit of credit where credits due

turtlefist · Post by **turtlefist** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:19 pm

Dear Seppo's .. Spend ya billions on another civil war ,,, last match was crap

Grimmwolf_GB · Post by **Grimmwolf_GB** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:22 pm

Duckwarrior wrote:QUOTE (Duckwarrior @ Oct 22 2011, 08:36 AM) The Luftwaffe switched to bombing cities, not radar installations.

Correct, they ignored the air fields and wanted to terror bomb the british. With unharassed air fields, defense is so much easier...

Duckwarrior wrote:QUOTE (Duckwarrior @ Oct 22 2011, 08:37 AM) How would they have crossed the channel, Cam?

raumvogel wrote:QUOTE (raumvogel @ Oct 22 2011, 08:59 AM) So what happened to "Operation Sea Lion?"

Germany was not prepared for the success of the west campaign. The started preparing for sea lion late in the summer, and abandoned the plans in the autumn. Beating France into submission in such a short time, when it didn't work for 4 long years in the first WW, was a surprise to everyone involved. Interestingly enough, there were no plans at all for a "case victory"...

Dangeruss wrote:QUOTE (Dangeruss @ Oct 22 2011, 03:16 PM) the halt order was enacted on the 24th of may and lasted until the 27th the embarkation ports and beaches were not taken untill the 4th of june.
we in the uk have a long proud history of handing the french thier arses and i post this purely in the spirit of credit where credits due

3 days are a long time to prepare and organize defences. It gave time to reorganize the routed troops and create tank barriers and so on. The german attack in france depended on mobility and quick decisions and follow ups. Wasting 3 days in waiting position hurt the advance and made an earlier capturing of the beaches impossible. The brits best friend on the beaches were Hitler and Göring, not the french.

Duckwarrior · Post by **Duckwarrior** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:05 pm

I must raid my bookshelf later. Churchill specifically ordered that no preference be given to the evacuation of British soldiers over French, in defiance of an order from the French command. It has been some time since I read the book. I need to refresh the details in my mind. Dunkirk. Retreat to Victory. By Major General Julian Thompson.

Britain in my view was saved by geography, namely The English Channel.

My question stands. How would Germany have invaded Britain?

Paratroopers?
Britain isn't Poland or France. It is obviously an island nation. Just thirteen paratroopers fill a JU52. Pretty much all of Britain was mobilised. Everybody too old for regular military service was drilling with their shotguns and pitchforks in the Home Guard. Britain in 1940 was a densely populated place. Wherever they landed they would have encountered stiff resistance from regular and auxiliary troops. Britain was fiercely defended by anti aircraft guns and reserve fighter squadrons based in Scotland and the north (admittedly mainly oddballs and obsolete types like Boulton-Paul Defiants and Gloucester Gladiators). A JU52's maximum speed is 270kph/165mph at 900m/3000 feet, it's service ceiling is 17000 feet/5200 metres. There were no quiet points for them to cross the coast, many would have been shot down long before they reached their drop zone. Paratroopers are not an invasion force in themselves, they are designed to nullify key targets and hold strategic positions. Once on the ground they are isolated from re-supply. They were totally unsuited as an advance force against what was probably the most heavily defended place in the world in 1940.

Beach landings?
The Kriegsmarine was no match for the Royal Navy surface fleet. Even in 1940, Britain was still the leading maritime power, with the most powerful navy in the world. 15 Battleships & Battlecruisers, 7 Aircraft Carriers, 70 Cruisers, 190 Destroyers. Not to mention auxiliary vessels, Mine Sweepers, Frigates, Coastal Patrol Vessels and Motor Torpedo Boats. Flat bottomed barges would have been a scary place to be, especially on an open piece of water as unpredictable as the English Channel. What would have towed them? What would have defended them? U Boats would have been utterly vulnerable in such a narrow area of such shallow depth. Have you ever seen a Destroyer at 35 knots? or the target that it makes from the air when weaving and making smoke at high speed? How about the wake that it kicks up? How about 10 or 50 or 100? They wouldn't have needed to open fire, Passing through the invasion fleet at high speed would have been enough to capsize it mid channel. Look at the devastation wrought by 9 E-Boats during Operation Tiger with a single attack. Even with air superiority, it was far from a foregone conclusion.

Where would they have landed?
The South Coast of Britain is a treacherous place. Rip tides, cliffs and rocky beaches do not lend themselves well to assault. The available options to land were considerably fewer than the options that the allies had in 1944. The most likely spots were extremely heavily defended along a coastline that was very heavily defended.

I could go on, but it's already TLDR for me even.