XC04

Drizzo · Post by **Drizzo** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:22 pm

Jimen wrote:QUOTE (Jimen @ Mar 29 2011, 06:13 AM) Can't say I'm happy about the adv/hvy scout sig nerf, but I guess it was probably an inevitable consequence of removing PPs, and I'm sure I'll get over it now that probing is always viable. Besides, making it more difficult to drop TP2 (rather than nerfing figbees) is the right way to handle Sup's endgame balance. One problem I do see is that there really isn't much reason to buy adv scouts anymore - now that all levels of scout have the same sig, they're little more than a speedbump on the way to hvy scouts.

Increased scan range? Durability? Energy? Probe capacity?

Jimen · Post by **Jimen** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:45 pm

Adv scouts have the same probe capacity as regular scouts, the difference in durability is insignificant, and the energy difference isn't terribly exciting IMO.

lexaal · Post by **lexaal** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:04 pm

Drizzo wrote:QUOTE (Drizzo @ Mar 29 2011, 06:22 PM) Increased scan range? Durability? Energy? Probe capacity?

If J. actually would play this game his question would be about hvy's vs adv. 7.5k is pretty much for only a few more probes and a little bit of hull

Please nerf fbs by removing the god damn turret if you do so for scouts.

CronoDroid · Post by **CronoDroid** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:14 pm

To be fair, Adv Scouts were largely pointless before anyway, since that 7500 could be used for at least two more TP2 runs or better tech like AB, Boosters, AC, whatever. The sig reduction from regular scouts to advanced ones was okay, but in reality it really did little to affect being able to get set up in a sector. 75% sig is good, if you got detected with that level of signature, it was very likely you would be discovered in an Adv Scout too.

It would only really matter if you sat at the rock the whole time, but only bad TP2'ers do that. I know I've often asked for Adv Scouts in the past while dropping TP2 but only with factions like Belters where the sig reduction is more valuable and Adv Scouts are much cheaper to buy too.

The hardest part of TP2'ing (aside from ensuring the TP stays alive) was getting into a sector, but there are a variety of methods to slip a scout in unnoticed like pushing a con, rushing a sector with a swarm of figs, bombing, etc. Getting detected at the end game stage with shields down running away in a scout in an enemy techbase sector always led to an endless chase, and pretty much erased any chance of getting a clean drop off.

It's very hard to find a scout at the sector edge especially if you turn away from the center of the sector so they don't get eye (something that most players don't figure out), and regular scouts are stealthy enough to be quite close to a probe without getting eyed. It really never affected my TP2 drops if they probed rocks because you weren't going to be detected in advance even with regular scout signature and uneyed drops are too random.

Since PPs are gone, the only REAL counter will be to camp alephs or rocks, but those were always the best solution for stopping TP2 scouts anyway. The sig nerf really doesn't affect much.

RoboTel · Post by **RoboTel** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:00 pm

Are you worried at all about Tac becoming too powerful this version?

Between scout nerfs, removal of pulse-probes, shield improvements, reduction of Sup GAs, and price reductions from the last version - there seems to be a huge shift towards Tac.

Maybe the garrison/starbase changes will help bring it down in-line a bit, but this seems to be a pretty dramatic shift.

CronoDroid · Post by **CronoDroid** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:44 pm

I addressed this issue in the other thread, but I think it is a valid concern so we'll see when the core comes out. I do think the ability for Exp to bomb against Tac may be severely hampered without PPs, but let's look at the other changes too.

There are no more treasures, a Tac team is forced to buy Sniper1 and Hunter2 in order to defend. At the same time, Gat damage against utility hull has been reverted, so miners die faster to figs and scouts. So in this regard, miner offense against Tac should theoretically be much easier than before, but bombing against them should be harder.

We've discussed in the past the two main ways of dealing with Tac (since it's generally accepted that Tac is most powerful at the Advanced stage). You can bomb them, or destroy their econ. With no more PP and better Snipers, bombing will be harder. Even though prices have been reduced, a Tac team will be forced to buy tech to defend anything, which is a strain on the economy.

I think it could work, but we'll see for sure.

Post by **Raveen** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:29 pm

Tac will remain the problem child that it's always been. Get a team that's good at tac and you'll pwn reliably and completely. Get a team that thunders about with shields up, missiles loaded flying straight at enemy ships and you'll lose badly.

Nothing to do with balance and everything to do with how complicated the concept is compared to exp and sup.

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:22 pm

Giving it some more thought it makes much more sense to get rid of PP's. It might be a boost to tac vs exp but when you consider exp can TT-cap it evens it out with the lack of PP's so tac can actually defend against it.

NightRychune · Post by **NightRychune** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:26 am

also i hope nobody is mad i brought tf cheese back by request

cashto · Post by **cashto** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:26 am

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Mar 30 2011, 12:29 PM) Tac will remain the problem child that it's always been. Get a team that's good at tac and you'll pwn reliably and completely. Get a team that thunders about with shields up, missiles loaded flying straight at enemy ships and you'll lose badly.

Nothing to do with balance and everything to do with how complicated the concept is compared to exp and sup.

Note that XC presumes good, squad-level play.