Motivation...

[KGJV]

Finally some people getting it ... some still don't.

TE, you said it many times here: 'my systems'. The whole issue is here.

YOU OWN the systems on which this COMMUNITY relies to EXIST. And you do a great (technical) job at this.

But that ownership grants you so much power that even if you're a 'nice guy' like it seems, the situation is not healthy. Because anyone who wants to do something or have a chunk of ZL power must please you. Like the Imago case showed: you won't give people YOU don't like/trust access to YOUR systems even if the ZLs want too.

That's your right for the systems you own. But the systems are not the community. The confusion starts here. And so to speak, you get the community by the balls whether or not you wanted this.

And that is why I've questioned you many time about how the systems work and who own them and why things are built like this instead of renting some servers somewhere for instance. Hell, there is even no documentation of these systems anywhere!

And that is why I want they keys because if you decide to pull off the plug (or disappear in a deep Canadian forest, god I don't wish you bad, just explaining my pov) then what ? I'm pretty sure you have a contingency plan with someone else but WHO? and for the whole keys ? can you totally disappear and the same day all your systems ownership can be transferred to someone else ? or will it be just the DNS and some backup and we will have to rebuild everything on new hardware?

As a member of this community who spend my free time investing in the FUTURE of this community I want TODAY know how the systems are built and run. I want total transparency on this matter. I need to know it's 200% safe whatever happen to anyone here.

Now, since they day you took the keys, you've proven to be very efficient at running daily operations: you're good at that and the people who naturally joined your inner circle are like you. No offense here guys, but you all are good at managing "operations" and small changes/fixes but when it comes to have a vision, a plan and imagination for the future : you all sux , sorry to say that but that's OK!

Because that is why the Dev Zone is here for: It's the R&D department of the community , the lab where you have crazy scientists like Imago or me, people with creativity but bad temper. That doesn't fit in your world , your mindset and that's perfectly normal.

When someone is good at managing a factory he's usually very bad at managing a lab and reciprocally a good lab lead is terrible in a factory.

Meditate about this a day or two.

[Shautsky]

Seems that a particular frequent poster in this thread is jealous of someone being the originator of true drama besides himself. (Not speaking of a dev or admin either)

[madpeople]

QUOTE (Eris @ Aug 22 2010, 11:02 PM) I can't even begin to fathom how you can consider this a good thing.

1) Because I'm an evil nasty man who likes it when people donate to charity to improve the lives of dying children.
2) Because I want the game to die by having it work flawlessly by having all it's bugs fixed.
3) Because I'm an enormous troll and love it when a thread after a major derailment and despite all the drama still achieves it's positive goals.

Good lord I must be one of the worst kinds of people - an optimist.

It's not just a win, but a triple win, a charitable donation, a bug fix, another thread not completely wasted on drama - I can't fathom how this cannot be a good thing? enlightenment please?

[spideycw]

QUOTE (pkk @ Aug 22 2010, 12:48 PM) Was spidey a primary contributor of CC team? No, you pushed him into the existing structure. (Maybe the best solution during that drama.)

Was Cort and now Bard a primary contributor of DevZone? No, you pushed both into the existing team.

Hardly a fair comparison since Aarmstrong was the CC ZL at the time

Also perhaps you think the public should select ZL's? Good, then we could have a popularity contest where Mastametz gets the keys to everything.

Having the public suggest ZL's is one thing, having them select them is something else entirely.

[spideycw]

QUOTE (Orion @ Aug 22 2010, 05:07 PM) I think that's a pretty common thing. If you ask a ZL, they will say they are the ultimate authority in their "zone", but in reality, they check with TE before they scratch their butt. Anyone who says otherwise is just using wishful thinking.

And I'm sure TE wants it to be that way, but currently it isn't. Not enough things are automated, and not enough of the ZLs actually know what they're doing.. they're simply those deemed trustworthy.

I will say I was pleased when I heard Bard was going to be the Dev ZL, but I think he has yet to prove himself, and he's had months thus far. He's far too concerned about what TE and TB want him to do.

Just to give you a bit of background here orion.

1) I discuss with other ZL's things related to my zone more than TE. Typically this will be Rav or Bard where we have some cross zone discourse. (Think primary authority, as opposed to ultimate authority)
2) I agree there are times when TE is very busy in RL and things take longer than I would like to be done. But you have to realize people have RL sometimes that overtakes doing something for a few days in a 11 year old video game.
3) Since when was I deemed trustworthy?

[pkk]

QUOTE (spideycw @ Aug 23 2010, 12:47 AM) Also perhaps you think the public should select ZL's? Good, then we could have a popularity contest where Mastametz gets the keys to everything.

Having the public suggest ZL's is one thing, having them select them is something else entirely.

So you confirm, that ZLs don't represent the community...

[Orion]

QUOTE (KGJV @ Aug 22 2010, 05:18 PM) Finally some people getting it ... some still don't.

TE, you said it many times here: 'my systems'. The whole issue is here.

YOU OWN the systems on which this COMMUNITY relies to EXIST.

Why don't we make a co-op, have 5 or 6 people, all pitch in and pay an equal share to keep the servers running, all with equal access and rights and ownership? I believe it works for pkk's (and whoever else's) server.

QUOTE 2) I agree there are times when TE is very busy in RL and things take longer than I would like to be done. But you have to realize people have RL sometimes that overtakes doing something for a few days in a 11 year old video game.[/quote]

This would be resolved rather elegantly with the solution above

QUOTE 3) Since when was I deemed trustworthy?[/quote] Good question

[Gandalf2]

I thought the whole "what if something happens to TE" scenario was being covered by the gradual training-up of TheBored? I'm not sure how much power he has now exactly now though - ie if TE died tomorrow could TB take over fully?

For sure I understand KGJV's pov but I'm not sure if he's saying he needs to have they keys or if he would be happy if someone else whom the community was happy with had the keys too?

[spideycw]

QUOTE (pkk @ Aug 22 2010, 07:03 PM) So you confirm, that ZLs don't represent the community...

I'm not sure how on earth you got that from what I said.

I feel like I was very clear that
A) There is no "vote" for Zone Leaders by the public at large because of my example.
and
I am all for nominations by the community for who they think Zone Leads ought be.

BTW don't think for a second I am one of the "nicer" admins who will pull any punches reading erroneous or flat out stupid comments.

[spideycw]

QUOTE (Orion @ Aug 22 2010, 07:06 PM) Why don't we make a co-op, have 5 or 6 people, all pitch in and pay an equal share to keep the servers running, all with equal access and rights and ownership? I believe it works for pkk's (and whoever else's) server.

This would be resolved rather elegantly with the solution above

Good question

That could be a solution that works but you would first need to demonstrate conclusively that there is a problem and then you would need to convince the powers that be its a good idea!

As I've said. Many of the devs have good points, but those good points are often ruined by the childish antics of people like Imago, Fuzz, Baker, Wasp etc, which makes you all get lumped in together and sadly mixes much of the good with a few of the bad.