Adjusting Adv Scouts

[Jeruwafi]

just introduce enh scouts in basic garr with some prerequisites like any techbase or any adv techbase ;p
it will nerf bios as a byproduct though.

[Adept]

QUOTE (Jeruwafi @ Feb 16 2010, 12:06 PM) just introduce enh scouts in basic garr with some prerequisites like any techbase or any adv techbase ;p
it will nerf bios as a byproduct though.

This I would like. It would slow down Bios' getting adv scouts without making them pay any more for them.

Then again I'd like the same for gunships, for much the same reason.

[Jimen]

If Bios garr tech is too powerful right now (as people have been hinting in both the recent GS thread and this one, though I don't really see it that way myself), then there's got to be a better way to fix it than nerfing garr for all factions.

[Gandalf2]

QUOTE (Jeruwafi @ Feb 16 2010, 10:06 AM) just introduce enh scouts in basic garr with some prerequisites like any techbase or any adv techbase ;p
it will nerf bios as a byproduct though.

Pretty much this, though I'm not sure about the prerequisite.

The fact adv scouts are under starbase instead of garrison, is in my eyes a long-term anomoly. I would nerf them a bit (clay's suggested numbers look good) and put them in garrison.

Adv scouts currently cost starbase + adv scouts,
Heavy scouts currently cost starbase + adv scouts + heavy scouts, which isn't much more than starbase + adv scouts. No-one really gets adv scouts without going on to heavy scouts.

Currently, the fact that adv scouts and heavy scouts are similar in many regards, is actually quite reflective of their research costs and place in the research tree.

[Compellor]

TF Adv scouts at 6 minutes in? Scary. I think we need to remember the place of the scout as the best defense against SFs and SBs and a key component of a bomb run - any move that would make scout upgrades easier to get would nerf Tac considerably and make bomb runs more effective not long after you could normally afford bombers. Sure, you could nerf scouts or buff tac etc., but that's a bit of a complicated balance adjustment to fix something that's not so much broken as slightly unusual.

[theTroy]

Advscouts always were better for stealth and scouting. You would still not be able to kill a miner in an adv scout.

Hvy scouts pack extra missile ( basic figs - 4 dumbs + quickload!) and an extra miniAC turret. They can proxcamp twice as long, and imo, they are a huge step from advscout. Just from the wide range of offensive + defensive things a hvy scout can do. (12 proxes is nearlly 1/4 of the life of a caltrop iirc)

[Solamnus]

Moving AdvScouts to garr would be good as Gandalf suggested. We need moaaarr better scauts!

[Adept]

I'll add this still. The only thing I actually like about heavy scouts is the doubled space for deployables. You could just add that to adv scout, and remove the heavy scout altogether. No more rix heavy scout nonesense for one.

[Broodwich]

this was brought up like a year ago. stfu adept we are not removing hvy scout

[Clay_Pigeon]

My contention is that for the situations in which they are used (tp2 currently being a primary one), adv scouts are too much bang for their buck (primarily scan and sig). By reducing their effectiveness, you give exp and tac a modest double perk against sup. The >20% change in sig makes tp2 droppers easier to find, while the 10% nerf in scan makes it a little easier for htts and sbs to hide.

QUOTE If you think tp2's overpowered, then how about actually nerfing tp2, instead of nerfing ships that most people already don't consider worth the cost (based on how rarely they're bought)? Shockingly enough, adv and hvy scouts do have a use beyond "tp2 dropper" and "has a turret" respectively[/quote]



You might want to check behind your couch, because I believe you're missing the point. Tac has almost no compelling reason to by adv scouts. Exp has some, as htt runs have a slightly higher chance of success when backed by adv scouts with more hp/energy than basic. Sup, on the other hand, has every reason to buy adv scouts, and part of the cost is built into sup's endgame. Not only are they very helpful for tp2, but adv scouts can use every single piece of sup tech (except boosters, and even that exception has an exception).

While nerfing tp2 is an most of tp2's relevant properties are determined by code, rather than core. We can tweak activation time or make the probe more vulnerable to missile fire, but that's the extent of it. Back in the day, all tp probes had a 1/6 chance of imploding per ripping ship, but that was in the code. Of course, given how ready you are to throw rocks at people who disagree with you, I'm going to assume that you already knew this.