Rix SR Scouts

[CronoDroid]

The important question to ask yourself is: Does Rix need a nerf?

Yeah Rix plays different from other factions in having SR scouts, and yeah, you can rip three scouts into another scout to attack a miner...but that is a huge nerf. Instead of ONE fighter you need THREE scouts. Same amount of firepower, three times as many players, less people doing other things, plus more scouts than Figs which is generally a bad idea.

Any way you want to reason it, having no SRs is a detriment to Rix's starting power. Yeah more people can rip in if a scout dies, but that just means more people in pods or concentrated in one sector instead of spread out looking for enemy cons, nanning your own cons, probing, whatever. I don't want to see Rix using three times as many people to do the same job a single fighter can do (and better because it has booster).

QUOTE Crono, this change actually helps SF's hunt miners, as they would be able to rip to any scout on the map, not just "SR's".[/quote]

I know but you said earlier "Most Exp/Tac teams don't use SRs to hunt miners" but Tac teams do use SRs, which is what I'm referring to.

Yes, this forces Rix to use "TEAMWORK" and "SKILL" instead of "CHEESE"...but this is not a perfect game where every player is Crono, Adaven or Drizzo. This is a game where the average player is someone along the lines of Tigerfish. And this core isn't SquadGameCore. It's CommunityCore. While we should aim to remove blatant cheese and other skilless things like old Dis3, XRM, etc, Rix SR scouts are not even close to being cheese, especially not with the way most people fly scouts, or Rix for that matter.

Rix has some slightly cheesy things like Rix SFs being able to drop pretty much everything a scout can (up to and including TP2), Stinger mounting HTTs, Rix Dests even but at the end of the day, they are by no means overpowered, and this change will most definitely make them weaker. "Forcing Rix to rely on skill"? Most people even after years of playing Allegiance still can't fly or command Rix how it should be. You might ask why cater for the lowest common denominator instead of the good people who play this game but while the majority of players are voobs, there is no good reason to make the faction even harder to play well. Rix has never dominated the Faction Win/Loss board which suggests one of two things:

1. They're balanced.
2. Most people can't play it correctly.

If it's 2, the vets will just have to live with it while we're talking about "CommunityCore". Rix doesn't need a nerf, not until people start playing Rix like pros and taking FULL advantage of its perks. Until then, Rix is fine as it is. If you want Rix to get nerfed, then you're just going to have to go out of your way to teach people how to play it.

[Adaven]

QUOTE (CronoDroid @ Dec 6 2008, 10:56 PM) I know but you said earlier "Most Exp/Tac teams don't use SRs to hunt miners" but Tac teams do use SRs, which is what I'm referring to.

That is just a simple miscommunication. When I wrote that sentance I was worried it might get misconstrued, but I didn't have a lot of time to clarify. Of course tac can make great use of SF's ripping to scouts. My point was more that once SF's are up, they don't rip basic figs anymore to hit miners, so the change could not effect thier mid/late game negatively.

I will grant that figs are very good for killing miners early game and that a group of scouts might not be as efficient. However, I still wouldn't call it a nerf since you would be creating many more opportunities. You might see a lower success rate of attack runs, but I think you'd be surprised comparing the total number of miners/cons killed.

Finally, I'm glad that this thread's subtopic has proven approprate. So many of my threads waste away into obscurity.

[Drizzo]

How is this a nerf if you are exponentially increasing the power of sup/starbase?

What you're not understanding, Crono, is Rix loses nothing by reverting back to this old function. Why don't you run the numbers and scenarios and see for yourself. Or better yet get one of your friends and load up an old core and see for yourself. Try using MS 1.25

[DasSmiter]

Why does it need to be changed? I've never seen Rix as overpowered because of its SRs (though they do annoy the @#(! outta me) and changing them could make them balance destroying, so why change it?

[Jyppa]

Oh, god, I'm going to kill myself when newbies steal all my energy while nanning miners.

[pkk]

QUOTE (Adaven @ Dec 6 2008, 11:22 PM) Indirectly, sort of. The carriers are not being changed at all.

Here's the current system:

Rix Carrier has 2000 units of energy. When a basic fighter rips in, it takes away 1200 units of energy from the carrier, leaving it with 800. Before another fighter can rip in, you have to wait for the Carrier to regenerate another 400 units of energy (takes 5 seconds).

Proposed system:

Carrier still has 2000 units of energy. When a basic fig rips in, it takes away 1201 units of energy. 2000-1201= 799. Meaning the carrier will have to regenerate 401 units of energy before a 2nd fig can rip in. So yes it might nerf rix carriers in that it might take extra second for the 2nd consecutive fig to be able to rip in. The 3rd, 4th, + figs should be able to rip in just as fast as before.

Researching AdvScouts (17.5k, 24 secs) would make you able to rip Figs in.

Maybe you should also increase the SF/AdvSF ripping costs to 1201.

[deschain]

QUOTE (pkk @ Dec 8 2008, 11:52 AM) Researching AdvScouts (17.5k, 24 secs) would make you able to rip Figs in.

Maybe you should also increase the SF/AdvSF ripping costs to 1201.

For SF/Adv SF you could still rip to a scout at 1201 if your commander is clever enough to buy ship energy gas. Which of course goes for basic figs as well.

[pkk]

QUOTE (Deschain @ Dec 8 2008, 02:30 PM) For SF/Adv SF you could still rip to a scout at 1201 if your commander is clever enough to buy ship energy gas. Which of course goes for basic figs as well.

Good point.

[Broodwich]

QUOTE (DasSmiter @ Dec 7 2008, 08:34 AM) Why does it need to be changed? I've never seen Rix as overpowered because of its SRs (though they do annoy the @#(! outta me) and changing them could make them balance destroying, so why change it?

Their opening against fig factions, especially giga, is brutal. I do like Adaven's idea, as it would nerf rix's opening miner killing abilities yet at the same time prove an extreme buff to their mid/late game miner killing abilites. Because almost nobody flies srs past the opening game even when they are sup, even if you tell your team to keep using srs you still see plenty of regular scouts just flying around.

And as already mentioned other factions do not have srs at the opening so bitching at how this is a huge nerf to rix *coughcronocough* is really rather stupid

[sambasti]

Isn't crono the one who was quoted saying that he likes how rix has a strong opening, strong midgame, and strong endgame?