Hot Topic: XRM Missiles

CronoDroid · Post by **CronoDroid** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:39 am

QUOTE No, it's normally a Tac and SBs.[/quote]

Which are cheaper and deadlier (contrary to what other people think). I also cannot believe there are people in this thread saying XRM is more effective than SBs. It isn't, and I've already discussed at length in the other thread the reasons for this.

However one has to take into account Sup is the middle ground in terms of pre-endgame strength. It doesn't have the dogfighting powah of ints or the bombing vunerability of Tac and therefore it has the second best endgame tech. I fail to see how ships that can mount Hunters, Snipers and that can cloak could be considered harder to get into a sector or be less able to defend itself than an expensive and weak TP2 scout.

Anyhow, it is played less and though it has little to do with how effective XRM is, it serves the same purpose. Also I think any suggestions about nerfing other things related to XRM (like TP2) or providing a counter is, well, counterproductive. With new tech comes more things that have to be balanced. If you want to nerf XRM, reduce its damage or something. We don't really need more silly, situational tech like laser shooting turrets, teledrones or the like.

Exo · Post by **Exo** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:44 am

Picobozo wrote:QUOTE (Picobozo @ Oct 27 2008, 11:02 PM) It helps the scout that is dropping them find the scout that is carrying the tp2. While he is dropping probes, he is actively scouting that sector and making the approach and setup of a tp2 harder.

Separate deprober/decoy scout ftw?

I think the other issue is that TP2 drops can be countered already, and many are, successfully. But the minute XRM enters the equation, the ability to now defend a 5k wide ring around a base is that much harder.

Think how easy it is to setup a SB at 5k, especially the first time you do it when the enemy team, for some reason, isn't ready for it. Now do that with a single scout, and rip in bombers that are capable of flinging payload almost from the moment they arrive.

The correct XRM drop can only be thwarted if the TP2 is caught. If that's laid, there really shouldn't be any way of blocking the successful destruction of your base.

Similar could be said of an SB run, but that involves mutliple bombers setting up in a spread, and then a run to the usual 1.5k to launch, so actually there is much more chance of foiling it enroute and in the final run.

Following Makida's idea, maybe you could have a deployable chaff screen that was dropped like a prox mine, by scouts, that had a moderate chance of detonating missiles that flew through it? Would require CM3 as pre-requisite, which is not necessarilly something you would automatically go for against Sup (and Starbase, natch, maybe adv scouts too...)

Gandalf2 · Post by **Gandalf2** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:31 pm

If the options mentioned what sort of a nerf XRM would be getting, I might've voted for it. As it is, I voted to leave them as it is, as I think only a very minor nerf is needed, if any (eg, take 10-15% off the range of the missiles).

TeeJ · Post by **TeeJ** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:52 pm

Badger wrote:QUOTE (Badger @ Oct 27 2008, 07:40 AM) I have not used XRM too often. I think tp2 drops, sB runs, and any type of bomb run has the same common solution to counter it, good probing or active PP scouts. Perhaps instead of nerfing XRM, we need to look at providing ways to better counter it. Making probing something folks would be more inclined to do would be a good start.

I will be in a game where I nan or scout or probe, and it is rewrding to contribute to the team, but it is frustrating as hell when the glory goes to the ones who kill cons, miners, or whore. Killing miners and cons is importnt and is certainly the best way to cripple an enemy's chances of winning. However, what about probing so their bomb runs get eyed or their miners for the miner killers to see them and hunt them.

Making probing a way to get some points would be helpful I think. It would also make bombing of any kind harder if folks are probing. Just my thoughts.

I have to say I agree with badger on the scouting issue. we say all the time that kills mean nothing, and scouts win games, but the recognition for the scout is minimal.

Really don't have a preference regarding XRM. I would hate to see it go away, and have never seen it as detrimental to the game. what are we gonna do next, do away with pulse probes?

I think there are many other issues to address, although I don't object to this discussion taking place. Besides, what do I know? (I see quote possibly coming from that last sentance along with some sort of derogatory statement)

I do know that the consensus seems to go along with the more popular personalities in our community. One well known vet says it sucks, and you can almost visualize the perceptions of others changing to fit that opinion.

whippit · Post by **whippit** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:56 pm

XRM needs to cost more per rack.

The range need to be reduced a bit.

But what would be really cool is an anti-missile missile.

In my experience XRM doesn't get used that often but it could use a little tweaking on the range and price.

chakotae · Post by **chakotae** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:20 am

I would say leave it alone. XRMs' are powerful, but not a lot of Commanders can do XRM Drops well. I would agree that there should be some sort of countermeasure that should be able to be deployed quickly to destroy the missles. Perhaps a Century Gun (with a 1k range) of some assort that will lessen the amount of missles or weaken the destructive force of the missles that hit the base. Just a Suggestion.

Chak

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:45 am

XRM drops can be done just as well by sucky commanders as good ones imo. All you need is one tp 2 scout who knows what he is doing

CronoDroid · Post by **CronoDroid** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:30 am

lol, ignored again!

I will repeat what I said; counters to XRM are COUTERPRODUCTIVE, as "imaginative" as they may be. Stop adding more things in that need to be balanced. If you want to nerf XRM, NERF THE $#@!ING MISSILE.

Psychosis · Post by **Psychosis** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:17 am

chakotae wrote:QUOTE (chakotae @ Oct 28 2008, 08:20 PM) I would agree that there should be some sort of countermeasure that should be able to be deployed quickly to destroy the missles. Perhaps a Century Gun (with a 1k range) of some assort that will lessen the amount of missles or weaken the destructive force of the missles that hit the base. Just a Suggestion.

you know what is funny, and I just want to point this out for anyone who has never tried it

ready?
you can use towers to defend against XRM drops, because they shoot the missles down

*GASPS* omg, did I just let the cat out of the bag?

ALSO
SC towers, such as TF's only tower, are even more effective, 2 can easily slow down an entire run by themselves

wait, there is more!
you can even use them to defend against SBs!

well thats enough secrets for today

Post by **zombywoof** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:25 am

I voted for keep as is. I'm new, but I'm going to add my opinion anyways and get flamed for it. I'm actually ok with that.

When it comes to techpaths and opinions about game tactics, I will always defer to Aarmstrong and Spidey by default. So far in both threads, which I have read, neither Aarmstrong nor Spidey believe TP2 to be overpowered. In fact, iirc, both commanders believe figbees are more powerful. That by itself is reason enough to disbelieve tp2 is overpowered.

During pugs (which are the only games I've played in, though I have seen a few squad games) I've seen TP2 XRM both work and fail. I've also been assigned to create probe nets to stop TP2. If a team were able to do dedicated probing, and used proper placement, TP2 scouts would always be eyed (except the BIOs versions). What is a TP2 scout going to do against a probe that is immediately behind the aleph? Go around the aleph and shoot it? Of course if your opponent has an advanced sup and you see a lone scout wandering in your home sector and you let it go, and get TP2ed, I have no sympathy for you. Hell, droning alephs seems like it'd be effective at stopping TP2 scouts. Also what Psychosis said about the droning of the bases to stop the XRMs.

During squad games I've only ever seen two strats used: heavy int bombing and shipyard. I find it really hard to believe that the reason TP2 XRM isn't used in squad games is because it's 'cheap.' I think in terms of squadgames TP2 wouldn't be used often because it requires the team to go sup, though I'm not sure why supspansion isn't used more... So far every team I've seen play has gone expansion of one flavor or another, usually splashing tac in.

If I had to pinpoint on why TP2 XRM is as effective as it is, it's because it's one of the few endgame strategies that really requires shooting down before it gets into place, and the average player hasn't got the situational awareness to see it being placed. Much like SBs, it's hard to stop once it gets set up. But whereas SBs are obvious (you see a stealth walking towards your Exp sector, you're going to start searching your Exp sector for SBs), a single scout tends to go unnoticed by teams, which is why TP2 is so deadly.

This noob's 2cp.