Player Ranking in Allegiance

Adaven · Post by **Adaven** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:26 pm

My rank has remained fairly stable for the last 6-7 months. Seems to work imo.

blackrob · Post by **blackrob** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:36 pm

(After seeing results of the poll) Another question. Elo is used in professional sports, in chess, in go, what the hell is more proven than Elo?

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:45 pm

For the answer to your question, read Sgt Baker's very astute critique of HELO here:

http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...mp;#entry187106

Basically, ELO is very much proven for head to head (ie 1 on 1) games. It does not work for team games. TrueSkill, invented by Ph.D.'s at Microsoft, is specifically designed for team games. AllegSkill is essentially an allegiance application of Trueskill - read: it IS trueskill, coded to be plugged into allegiance.

Gandalf2 · Post by **Gandalf2** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:17 pm

Adaven wrote:QUOTE (Adaven @ Dec 14 2007, 10:26 PM) My rank has remained fairly stable for the last 6-7 months. Seems to work imo.

So is mine, at 14. It's been months since it was over 15 or under 13 I think. However the fact you can pick a team out of the 13's and 14's that could beat a team entirely composed of players ranked 16 + (obviously you'd have to choose specific players for this to work) - this indicates to me that they system isn't working as it is, without even having to go into all the thought & detail that these guys have.

QUOTE Edit 2: and what does the H stand for in HELO? I tried to ask in NOAT once but obviously I just got nonsense and HELO hate back.[/quote]

It's a halo-adjusted version of ELO. Click here for Pook's post which started off the current ranking system.

Clay_Pigeon · Post by **Clay_Pigeon** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:36 am

I'm not sure that this is a well worded survey.

The option "Replace the current systems with something proven to be more effective" guides the subject to pick it over options 1 or 2 (if something is proven to be more effective, then why not use it?)

cashto · Post by **cashto** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:16 am

Doesn't let me vote. Anyways I'm in favor of moving to a Trueskill-like system.

I agree the survey isn't very well worded. No one's gonna vote against a system that's "proven" to work. But people might vote against AllegSkill -- if, in their mind, the benefits of it aren't well proven. :-)

Surveys need to be specific. It's well known that you get completely different results for the question "should a proven philanderer remain president?" vs. something like "should Bill Clinton remain president"? People may have general opinions about things but may make exceptions in specific cases depdending on other factors and circumstances. You can't just assume a response to one will correlate with the other.

Fragtzack · Post by **Fragtzack** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:38 am

I don't think this is the official poll. TE is going to do official in Jan I think.

Kltplzyxm · Post by **Kltplzyxm** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:42 am

FBOFW, I don't think you'll see much of a change with a revote again in January - rewording or not. Implementing AS is winning in massive landslide. I'm willing to bet that had you held a serious 2-choice poll between having No Ranks vs. A Broken HELO, a broken HELO would still win.

45 vs. 5, it doesn't get much more landslide than that. I bet I can also come close to naming the 5 voters to abandon ranks altogether - at least 3 of those are proficient whores which ranks do them no good. Most players here are pretty progressive in this light and are willing to accept another attempt to the ranking system, even if was remotely accurate, and not abandon it altogether so long as the replacement seemed more effective than what we have now.

zecro · Post by **zecro** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:45 am

<ignore this post>
I voted for the 4th "yes." However, I don't really care about it. I've been Inter4 (or Inter3) for forever and I rarely get better than a 2:1 kill:eject ratio. I think that Helo has some value, because even whores are useful for teams. A whore would rather int escort than nan, and miner hunt than miner d, but as long as you have a whore who kills valid targets, there's nothing wrong with it. Of course, excess whorage won't get a team anywhere. That's because it's a team game, and people who specialize in killing have an impact just like the people who specialize at probing or nanning or bombing.

BUT

Because any effort to attempt to show me how wrong I am is TL;DR, I can roll with a new system. I just think it ain't broke (so don't fix it), but everyone else has a polar opposite view, so I think that as a community member I can support the movement to a new system and not insist on my opinion, which is probably flawed and uninformed anyway.
</ignore this post>

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:23 am

"With somthing proven to be more effective"

How do you prove if something is more effective or not?