Community Core

Post by **Tigereye** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:52 am

pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 4 2007, 10:53 AM) What has the event, artwork or enforcement zone to do with a community core?! /unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":unsure:" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Every community member has a voice regarding a community core, even the ZoneLeads of other zones. The ZLs have the added benefit of being leaders in this community, so are the perfect people to bounce ideas off of.
They'd also be the best people to know how any proposed community-wide changes would affect their zones.

--TE

Clay_Pigeon · Post by **Clay_Pigeon** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:06 am

psst. there is no artwork zl

On other fronts, I've read several very good ideas that I want to post again so that people will talk about them more. If people don't spend an adequate time posting on how these are such good ideas, I will post them again.

1) Community Core != Official Core

We can have a core that is an "official community project" without mandating it as the one true core. People have been saying much the same thing, but Denga articulated it well.

2) Noir as Community Core ZL

Well....yes (sort of), and no, and no. As far as core devs go, Noir is immanently qualified. However, in my mind, the primary feature of a Community Core is tying it to a small (3-5) group of people, rather than a single dev. The goal is to get something that (assuming it gets playtime) can have a more rapid turn-around time than cores controlled by a single, busy person.

I would obviously like to see someone with Noir's level of experience on a core dev team, but he would have to be committed to the process. Beyond that, if we picked DN as the starting point of a community core, he'd have to be willing to relax his grip on having sole control over that core. Based on what he's posted in the past, I would suspect that he'd be hesitant to sign off on both of those points.

Even if everything happens as it does in my Alleg wet dreams, I don't see a need to create an entirely new zone for this activity. A community core would clearly be a Development Zone issue, so Dogbones would oversee the effort. Sticky balance problems could be resolved in consultation with the other ZLs and SLs. In essence, it wouldn't be that different from what is happening with the FAZ code base right now, or new modifications to players' Allegiance installs.

Kumquat · Post by **Kumquat** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:27 am

This idea belongs in the trash.

Gappy · Post by **Gappy** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:43 am

Noir has a conflict of interest due to his maintenance of DN that prevents him from being the community core lead (Should such a position be created.)

The community would need to have ultimate control of deciding who the maintainer of that core was, Noir is not willing to relinquish DN to the community like that at this time (from what I've seen in the past), and thus Noir and DN cannot be that maintainer/that core.

Clay's idea of a community maintained (yet unofficial) core is a fine idea. The best starting point would be for a reasonable core to come out, and for someone to donate that to the community at large.

Post by **aem** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:51 am

Clay_Pigeon wrote:QUOTE (Clay_Pigeon @ Jul 5 2007, 02:06 AM) Even if everything happens as it does in my Alleg wet dreams, I don't see a need to create an entirely new zone for this activity. A community core would clearly be a Development Zone issue, so Dogbones would oversee the effort. Sticky balance problems could be resolved in consultation with the other ZLs and SLs. In essence, it wouldn't be that different from what is happening with the FAZ code base right now, or new modifications to players' Allegiance installs.

We may or may not need a new Zone depending on the inner workings of the group working on the core. If it is a small group of 3-5 people with about equal responsibility then there isn't a reason for it to have its own zone.

That said I've voiced my opinion and remain convinced it is the best way to go. I'd really like to have an administrative figure or very small group helping coordinate the effort. But have the power to decide balance changes mostly remain in the hands of a smallish community group. Reiterating what I have previously said there are basically three tiers. An administrative lead and any assistants cover administrative duties and watch over the two lower tiers. After admins come 2-3 core devs who physically work on the core. The lower tier is a smallish selection of community members (Edit: yeah my numbers were too high earlier, anymore than 5-8 would probably be too many) to discuss balance changes with the core devs to fully make it a community based core.

I'd personally not like this in the Development Zone. Dogbones or more generically, the Development Zone Lead, really has enough to handle as it is and it would not be in the best interests of the community to have his time divided to oversee a community core project.

It would be perfectly acceptable to make the Community Events Zone the Community Zone and have that ZL oversee the Community Core, though the Core group would work with the Dev team in implementing any core format changes.

ShadowFox_ · Post by **ShadowFox_** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 am

I love DN... and while I don't always agree with some of the changes noir makes... he tries them to test balance, and with each release he tweaks to fix again. I love DN DN is the community core. DEATH TO ALL OTHER CORES! J\k. I'm happy we have variety... DN is just my fav. Now... if we developed a new core similar to DN that the community had control over I don't necissarily see anything wrong with it. I just love DN and would like to see it as the base point.

P.S. AEM... $#@!ing cool training site.

guitarism · Post by **guitarism** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:16 am

You all do realize that there is a reason DN works. It is just one person working on it in balance issues. Theres a reason why GoD works. IT's a small number of people, very few. There is a reason a "community core" would not work. Everyone has their own idea about balance. Well we would spend YEARS sorting out what people want, and no one would be happy in totality with it. Why? Because it isn't what THEY want.

Why do most of the people play DN? Because they are happy with it. And if they aren't, they take their complaints to the forum Dev, and he decides if it's valid and then works on it. Thats how it's been forever.

Kage, I don't know what your issue is. You play on DN just like everyone else. If you want to start a community core, then start your own core, get it up and running and then donate it to the community. The fact that Noir has put hundreds of hours of work into his core shows, and it is also obvious from the number of people that play it that they enjoy it.

I enjoy playing on other cores as well. I've been known to go play a game on EoR, and I've comanded on GoD, and enjoy it more in some aspects. SG's are played on both GoD and DN, showing that Squads suport BOTH of those cores.

KGJV, here is my suggestion to you. If you want a "community core" then you can put in some of the work founding it. PM Noir and ask if he can give you any advice, PM Grimm, Talk to Ang. Then start from the MS core, and work your way into the way you want it balanced. Talk to Orion, since GT is his creation, talk to Vegeta since he has Dreg and TF. Then work your way into the way YOU think it should start as being balanced. Then let it be free to the community for Their idea of balancing.

I guarentee that at this point, the community will bog down the project. Why? Because there will be no leadership, if I've understood your idea correctly. No one agrees completely on Balance. We all have our personal views.

Until this *doesn't* happen, I will continue to play on DN cores, and GoD cores, because they are cores that the community, as a whole, seems to enjoy playing on.

Post by **Raveen** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:51 am

guitarism wrote:QUOTE (guitarism @ Jul 5 2007, 08:16 AM) Until this *doesn't* happen, I will continue to play on DN cores, and GoD cores, because they are cores that the community, as a whole, seems to enjoy playing on.

Just as a side point the only reason why squad games aren't happening on other cores atm is because Ozzy decided that we weren't allowed to play on them for the tourney. I suspect you'd see an equal number of PC2 SGs as GoD2 SGs if we were allowed to play them.

Post by **TheBored** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:42 am

Bravo Gui /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />

TB

Snack · Post by **Snack** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:05 am

Um, except no one said that Gui. Did you even read the first post?
What no leadership? Read the first post again, more carefully this time Gui (and TheBored).

IMHO you completely missed the point Gui. The CC is not here to kill off any particular core, but to make it easier for developers to develop the system further and for newcomers to grasp. What we have now is nice, but most of this community is for progress at the end of the day. Otherwise we wouldn't have what we have today. Besides, as far as I know and from what I saw in R4, all cores are supported and not one core is left out.

You seem not to understand the issue Guitar, so let me try and explain. It's very simple really. Basically, nothing changes except one core is the offical one used for stats and further development of Allegiance system. Other cores can be played as well, just not with all the bells and whistles. It's similar to AZ and FZ we had before (See Alleg Academy).
To hijack your (faulty) reasoning, if it's so easy to support multiple cores while adding more and more features to Allegiance system, why don't you go and donate all these new features yourself and I'll be more then happy to play on your Allegiance version with all the bells and whistles instead? Of course, that is a silly argument, but by that analogy, so is yours.

As for who will be the ZL and (small) core dev team, I don't really care, as long as the core dev process is transparent and resonably effective. One thing though, if you exibit an incredible ammount of egoism and absolutely refuse to work with others or even take in account their opinions, you have no place in there.